Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from Ep. 182– Straight Talk Sales

Today we get the pleasure of talking to Jeffrey Gitomer, bestselling author of over fifteen books on sales including our favorite and his most popular The Little Red book of selling. Jeffrey is a sales expert who got his start in New York City, not a place known for an easy sale. Jeffrey runs a family-owned business who is known for his straight talk approach. We loved getting to align with Jeff about how to serve your customers well and learn what they love. 

Listen to the conversation here:

Or check out the full transcript:

00:14
Tom Stanfill
Well, welcome back to another episode of Sales with ASLAN. I'm here with my… I don't know, partner, copilot, co host, man about town, favorite human being on the planet. Besides my family, my immediate family, I don't know about extended.

00:30
Tab Norris
Good call. Maybe I could beat out a second cousin. Maybe.

00:36
Tom Stanfill
Well, I don't know. Parents. I don't know. Let's not go there, Tab.

00:42
Tom Stanfill
We don't want to lose our fans. Because our families are so large. That's probably our primary fan base.

00:48
Tab Norris
It is true. I just like Wingman.

00:51
Tom Stanfill
I think Wingman works okay. Wingman. Well, were saying for a while, the best co host, the best podcast co host in America. Or did we say internationally?

01:00
Tab Norris
I think we said internationally, but I started.

01:02
Tom Stanfill
It's just making feels a little egotistical. I feel like we're reaching there. I feel like we might be reaching a little bit.

01:07
Tab Norris
Yeah. But let's just say we're having fun together.

01:09
Tom Stanfill
We're definitely having fun. Good to be back in the studio. And our sponsors, Tab, are going to love this episode.

01:16
Tab Norris
Their leads are just pouring in.

01:24
Tom Stanfill
They're going to be all over this.

01:25
Tom Stanfill
Because we have on our show today a New York Times bestselling author. It would be hard for you to be in sales and not know the name Jeffrey Gittimer.

01:36
Tab Norris
Yeah.

01:37
Tom Stanfill
He's a New York Times bestselling author. Probably most famous book is the Little Black Book of Selling. Little Red Book of selling, not black book. Little Red Book of Selling. I thought this was interesting. Wall Street Journal. 103 straight weeks on the Wall Street Journal's best selling list.

01:57
Tab Norris
Wow. So he's had a book on that for that long.

02:00
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

02:00
Tom Stanfill
And he's also part of the National Speakers hall of Fame. There's only 191 people in the National Speakers hall of Fame, one of them including Ronald Reagan and some other notables, which I don't remember.

02:13
Tab Norris
So we could push it to 200 once we kind of get there. I guess we're probably pretty close to get it above 200. There may be a couple of people squeak in before us.

02:22
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that's true. But, yeah, he's been well known.

02:28
Tom Stanfill
Lot of books out there.

02:29
Tom Stanfill
I think 13 books. He's written 13 books, so had a lot to share, which I loved his. You said this as were kind of prepping for the show. You loved his take on shifting from how to sell to focus on how customers buy.

02:45
Tab Norris
Yeah, I do. I really love that because it's just like kind of completely, people want to be guided through this buying process they don't want to be sold to. I just loved his fresh approach to that. He's out of the box. He just says what truth is, and there's no Bs. And I love that about him.

03:12
Tom Stanfill
That was the first question he asked. Can I cuss on the podcast? I'm a Jersey guy.

03:16
Tom Stanfill
Or did he say Philly?

03:18
Tab Norris
Philly. I think he was, yeah.

03:21
Tom Stanfill
And his philosophy aligns nicely with our philosophy related to focusing on a customer's receptivity and their willingness to buy and their willingness to work with you and their willingness to talk to you and their willingness to listen is far more important than our ability to communicate. And he definitely makes that point.

03:39
Tom Stanfill
Maybe not all of his books, but.

03:41
Tom Stanfill
Definitely his most popular books. I haven't read them all. I also liked his challenge related to fear and prep and being knowledgeable and how we're supposed to provide value and prospecting. I mean, there's just a lot of nuggets, a lot of gold in this episode. So without further delay, Tab, let's welcome our guest, Jeffrey Gitomer

04:04
Tom Stanfill
Jeffrey Gitomer. I mean, it's an honor, my friend. I think ever since I've been in sales since the early, not early eighty s. I don't want to say early 80s, mid 80s. Let's say mid 80s.

04:14
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay.

04:15
Tom Stanfill
I think I've known your name. I know you didn't get famous till probably, what, 2000?

04:20
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm going to say I started writing for the business journals around the country in 92.

04:27
Tom Stanfill
Okay. So that's probably where selling power.

04:30
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah. That launched everything. Yeah. I'm still pals with the selling power guys, but the challenge is that I wrote and was accepted. A lot of people write and they're not accepted.

04:43
Tab Norris
So you got the right.

04:48
Jeffrey Gitomer
Well, it started pretty much on accident. My mentor here in Charlotte was a guy named Ty Boyd who had the voice of God Radio guy and did all kinds of seminars. And I went to one of his seminars on customer service.

05:03
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

05:04
Jeffrey Gitomer
I took notes and I made a column out of it. And I said, at the end of the column, I asked the business journal for permission. I said, if you want Ty Boyd's 51 ways of getting close to your customer, fax over your letterhead with the word Ty Boyd on it, and we'll fax you back his 51 ways of getting close to the customer.

05:24
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

05:25
Jeffrey Gitomer
We had so many faxes, 300 faxes the first day, and it broke their fax machine. They almost couldn't get their paper out on time. And they said, look, if you want to do this again, use your own fax number.

05:39
Tab Norris
You're shutting us down over here.

05:41
Jeffrey Gitomer
Within a week, I bought two more fax machines, and I was receiving faxes on three fax machines and could not keep up. I had a full time employee doing nothing but faxing back. And years later, like ten years later, I was still getting faxes with Ty Boyd on someone's letterhead.

06:00
Tom Stanfill
From what world? Wow.

06:01
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, it's crazy.

06:02
Tom Stanfill
Wow. That's pretty cool. Well, tell us a story. So tell us how you. We know you as the National Speaker hall of Fame. You're a New York Times bestseller. You've written 13 books, all the kind of things. But how did you get started? Where does your experience come from to write these books? So what's your kind of.

06:26
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah.

06:27
Tom Stanfill
Entree into sales writing?

06:29
Jeffrey Gitomer
I pay attention.

06:30
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

06:31
Jeffrey Gitomer
And I'm a student. You come to my place in Charlotte. I have 11,000 books in my library.

06:38
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

06:40
Jeffrey Gitomer
Have you read them all? Of course I haven't. I'm a collector. But I have first editions of Samuel Smiles and Albert Hubbard and Dale Carnegie and Napoleon Hill. They're the founders of Personal development.

06:56
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

06:56
Jeffrey Gitomer
And I've said to people for years, if you want to get a new idea, read something 100 years old. But this is the challenge. I started in Margate, New Jersey, selling candy bars door to door, trying to raise money for charity when I was seven years old.

07:12
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

07:13
Jeffrey Gitomer
So I was never afraid to knock on somebody's door. I was never afraid. I sold firecrackers when I was in the 7th grade. I sold fireworks. Then my dad brought me back from Florida, made a ton of money, and then I was a door to door sales guy selling Encyclopedia Britannicus, where I failed, and baby pictures to mothers, where I succeeded, because I didn't believe in the Encyclopedia Britannica. I thought it was a bunch of crap because we had one at our house and I never used it.

07:44
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, but you never plagiarized a report from the encyclopedia?

07:49
Jeffrey Gitomer
Wow.

07:49
Tab Norris
I was a huge fan of the old encyclopedia.

07:52
Tom Stanfill
We're going to write about Minnesota. Let's see what the Encyclopedia of Artanica does about Minnesota.

07:58
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, it was boring. And I would know, write from my own thoughts. But once I started selling baby pictures and I realized that mothers wanted to buy pictures of their kids, not my kids, it taught me a huge lesson in selling.

08:15
Tom Stanfill
People will look at pictures of them, but not of you.

08:17
Jeffrey Gitomer
Bingo. They don't care about me. And that was high school, college, and then I built my career around starting my own businesses and selling in New York City.

08:30
Tom Stanfill
And that's not an easy market.

08:33
Jeffrey Gitomer
No, up yours is a greeting.

08:39
Tom Stanfill
There's probably another way to say that. Yes, there is.

08:42
Jeffrey Gitomer
And everybody went to bribe, but they were my businesses. I was the manufacturer and the salesperson, so I could adjust anything to meet a marketplace. It was fun to do, really fun to do. You learn a lot.

08:57
Tom Stanfill
What led to writing? How did initially, you started writing articles?

09:05
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, I was in Charlote and in the Charlote observer one Monday morning, the business Monday, there was a quiz on sales, and then the following Monday, they put the answers in, and the answers were totally wrong. And so I called the observer, and I said, you know, you're so stupid that you would believe what this guy says. But worse, hundreds of thousands of readers are getting wrong information. And so they came over to my place, and they wrote about my philosophy. In the very next business Monday, my phone rang off the hook, and I realized that I was a better writer than the guy that wrote about me. So I went to the Charlote observer, and I said, hey, I'd like to write a column on selling skills. And they said, no, you'll make too much money.

10:00
Jeffrey Gitomer
I said, no, I'll do it for no. You know, the notoriety. I'm like, are you kidding me? In other words, what you're saying is you don't care about your reader. You only care about if I make a few bucks. I said, I just want to write a column on sales. And the woman who's in charge of the, she was the editor of the business paper, she goes, it'll never happen. I said, you know what, honey? Some women don't like when you call them honey. No. I said, you know what, honey? It'll never happen here. And so I went literally to the bank, and the business journal was at the top floor of the bank building, and I was already doing business with them. I was already selling them sales leads and new corporations and stuff.

10:47
Jeffrey Gitomer
And the publisher of the business journal was walking across the street, as I was walking across the street, and he wanted to know why my picture was in the business paper. And I explained what it was, and he goes, do you have time for a cup of coffee? I said, sure. So we go to this place where all the newspaper people go, and he said, you know, 30% of our people who read our paper in sales, we don't do anything for them. I said, I have an idea. Why don't I write a column on sales, okay? And so as were talking, the people who turned me down walked by our booth.

11:30
Tom Stanfill
No way. In the restaurant.

11:32
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah. So when someone tells you never, that means not for at least 30 minutes, but I will tell you, give yourself 30 minutes.

11:41
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

11:42
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah. I will tell you that literally launched my writing career. And the publisher of the paper has become, like, dear friend of mine because we're 30 year friends now. I'm in his office and he goes, I'm not going to pay you to write the column, but I'll get you in other papers where you can get paid. I said, okay, fine. I spin around to leave, and he goes, hey, by the way, can you write?

12:10
Tom Stanfill
I guess we'll find out.

12:15
Jeffrey Gitomer
That was the beginning of my Career as a writer. And people will ask me right now, what do you do? I say, I'm a writer.

12:21
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

12:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
I used to say I'm a salesman, but now literally, I am a father of four daughters, a grandfather of four granddaughters, and a great grandfather of one great granddaughter. So I have nine offspring, all girls.

12:40
Tab Norris
Wow.

12:43
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm impressed.

12:45
Tom Stanfill
That sounds great. But at the same time, I like having some boys.

12:48
Jeffrey Gitomer
Well, you want to talk about. There's a lot of estrogen in our family.

12:52
Tab Norris
Oh, I can imagine.

12:55
Tom Stanfill
Any of them go to business with you?

12:57
Jeffrey Gitomer
Oh, yeah. We all live within 20 miles.

12:59
Tom Stanfill
None of them go into business with you? Like, you work together?

13:02
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, two daughters work for me.

13:04
Tom Stanfill
Oh, awesome. I thought I saw another get them.

13:08
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah. They've worked here for 15 years. We talk every day and we see each other at least three or four times a week. So I'm here.

13:20
Tab Norris
That's great.

13:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
And it's a family business. I have other employees, but it's a family business. And COVID forced me to go offshore. So instead of having a half a dozen people working here, I have a staff of 60 people in the Philippines that can all do the tasks of everyone that I had better. And no bitching about it. And we pay by the hour. You pay for what you get at $11 an hour.

13:53
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

13:54
Jeffrey Gitomer
And they're making a ton of money. That's more money than they've ever seen.

13:58
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, it's a win.

14:00
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah.

14:00
Tom Stanfill
So why do you think your work resonates so much with sellers?

14:05
Jeffrey Gitomer
Frankly, which I don't like using adverbs. I'm a no bullshit guy, and I'm a cold caller in Manhattan.

14:14
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

14:15
Jeffrey Gitomer
I've also delivered 2500 talks around the world and never made a sales call because the people who want me call me and see if I'm available. So I take that expertise and that understanding of creating, not the law of attraction, value attraction. I post my stuff up online, either video or text or audio, and people hear it and it resonates with them, and they want to buy. And my philosophy of selling is people don't like to be sold, but they love to buy. So I teach why people buy, which is the opposite of the yehoos that do what I do that think they know what they're talking about, and they don't.

15:00
Tom Stanfill
I do, too.

15:01
Tab Norris
One of my favorite, just in the little Red Book of selling, which I love, of course. That's a classic.

15:07
Jeffrey Gitomer
And may I say, tab, you're an excellent judge, but keep going.

15:11
Tab Norris
You know me well, Jeff.

15:14
Tom Stanfill
We trust him. I mean, if he says it's true.

15:17
Tab Norris
A lot of credibility. Jeff, I just loved just talking about learning your customer, your philosophy of being about them, and I love that. And when you talked about, call your six best customers, invite them to a seminar, offer great food. I love that. Tell me how that came about. When did you start doing that?

15:43
Jeffrey Gitomer
Within a couple of months of me being in the business journal, and I was in no other papers yet at the time. I said, can I give a seminar over at the Adams Mark Hotel? Would you put a little ad in the bottom of my column? And we sold tickets for $30 apiece, and 90 people bought tickets. And I said, you can buy a ticket at the door if you want. And the first 50 people who showed up did not have a ticket. The room was full, packed full of people. And I talked Philly. I didn't drop f bombs, but I was very close. They all knew I was capable of it.

16:30
Tab Norris
They knew you meant F bombs.

16:32
Tom Stanfill
You hung out right on the line. Right on the line.

16:35
Jeffrey Gitomer
People loved it. And then some guy who was in Toastmasters came up to me and said, you shouldn't swear when you're talking to an audience. And then I knew I was right. Whatever someone tells you not to do, that's what you do.

16:52
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, and I did pick that up in your writing. It's just. No bullshit. It's like just straight talk. It's punchy.

17:03
Tab Norris
Kick your own ass.

17:06
Jeffrey Gitomer
Come on. But I have guts. When I go into a sales call, if I'm talking to a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, which I've done many times, I start my conversation out with a question, where did you grow up?

17:22
Tab Norris
Right?

17:22
Jeffrey Gitomer
Because I want to know. Not where they're from. Where did you grow up? Because that's much more emotional, right? And then I say, well, do you want to buy now or you want to hear the pitch?

17:35
Tab Norris
Yeah, the use of humor. I see that in a lot of your stuff. Totally big fan of humor.

17:40
Jeffrey Gitomer
Totally. I'm having a good time at it, or I'm not going to do it.

17:42
Tab Norris
Yeah.

17:46
Tom Stanfill
Let'S transition to. Because I love hearing your background, because I think that's really important to know who you are and why you've been successful. Because we can all learn from that. And Tab brought this up about really focusing on why the customer buy. You said why they buy is all that matters. And I really do believe that's something.

18:05
Jeffrey Gitomer
Correct. And let me take it one step further, because there's one bullshit training company in the country that teaches you to find the pain.

18:13
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we know about that.

18:14
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay. Finding the pain is none of your business. And wouldn't you rather find the pleasure? Wouldn't you rather know where the guy plays golf or where he took a vacation or what book he just read? So you can find something in common, but to start the conversation out whining about what keeps you up at night, none of your business.

18:38
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, none of your business. But I think we ultimately need to solve problems or whatever is motivating them. Whatever they care about, whatever's on their whiteboard.

18:50
Jeffrey Gitomer
Perfect point. So instead of saying, what keeps you up at night, why don't you just rephrase it and say, tom, what gets you out of bed in the morning? What inspires you to get up? And people are going, wow, nobody ever asked me that before. Correct. That's my goal in talking to someone, is to ask them something that no one has ever asked them before.

19:11
Tom Stanfill
I love that question. I did really enjoy that chapter where you're talking about questions, power questions, where it makes them think. I think we add more value when we ask questions that they haven't considered, that we're talking agree. And then that elevates you in the mind of the decision maker, because you're basically demonstrating, not by coming in and saying, this is what you need to know. It's in a very humble way, you're demonstrating that you have something to offer and you need to be in that room because decision don't meet with sales.

19:42
Jeffrey Gitomer
Rep. Well, my statement is, which we talked about before we started recording, I've done 2500 seminars and I've never made a sales call. They all call me. Isn't that what you. Mr. Jones, if I'm talking of training your sales team, don't you want customers to call you or do you want to go make phone calls? Like a fool.

20:01
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right.

20:02
Tab Norris
Well, you know, what I love, Jeffrey, is something that we talk about as well at Aslan, is you're really almost trying to be. You're different than what people think of mean. You're. I don't want to be like everybody else. Not like everybody else.

20:20
Jeffrey Gitomer
You can't be like everybody else.

20:22
Tab Norris
Yeah. It's just not effective. And we want to be different.

20:26
Jeffrey Gitomer
Why would I want to do business with someone that sounds like everybody else?

20:29
Tab Norris
Exactly.

20:30
Tom Stanfill
You got to create contrast.

20:32
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah.

20:33
Tom Stanfill
So let's talk about focus in on how the buyer wants to buy. I want to get your perspective on how that's changed with the amount of information out in the market and how difficult it is to get the customer's attention. I think with the virtual, I mean, just, there's so many channels. Tell me what your philosophy is about how that's changed over the last maybe five years or the last decade. What you're teaching, is it all timeless principles? Nothing needs to change? Or do you feel like we've had to learn new skill set or a new mindset in the last decade?

21:13
Jeffrey Gitomer
You have to know the fundamentals that are 100 years old. You have to tell the truth. You have to be personable. You have to use a little humor. But you better understand that the world of selling has changed, not just in the past five years, but pandemic forward. There's a level playing field of if you're not virtual, you're out.

21:34
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right.

21:36
Jeffrey Gitomer
If you don't still go back to face, you're out. But the challenge for a salesperson is they're now vulnerable. You prepare for your sales call and you put all kinds of stuff together and you Google the guy and you find out all the stuff you can about him. Dude, they're Googling you. And if you're a jerk, I'm going to find out in 2 seconds if you have pictures of yourself naked in your backyard on Facebook, I'm going to see them. If you were dad, we got to.

22:17
Tom Stanfill
Take those pictures down.

22:18
Tab Norris
Gosh. This is very valuable.

22:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay, but just understand this.

22:24
Tom Stanfill
I got one of those little pools.

22:28
Jeffrey Gitomer
As you're walking in the door, the customer is googling you.

22:34
Tom Stanfill
That was good.

22:36
Jeffrey Gitomer
Whatever they find out, that's your fate.

22:39
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right. That's your brand. That's your brand.

22:42
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah. The sales guy will start out. Let me tell you a little bit about our business. Like, dude, I already know about your business. Tell me something you don't know.

22:50
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

22:51
Jeffrey Gitomer
Why are you wasting my time with you?

22:54
Tom Stanfill
Better come with expertise, right.

22:57
Jeffrey Gitomer
Or an idea. And I tell salespeople, if you walk in with information about you're done. If you walk in with an idea now, you're a resource, and the sales guy has to be a resource in today's. Mr. Jones, I was looking at your website, and I saw a couple of things on there that gave me an idea. May I share them with you?

23:18
Tab Norris
Right.

23:20
Jeffrey Gitomer
Hell, yeah. I want an idea.

23:22
Tab Norris
You're bringing value.

23:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
Or you could say, I'd like to come over with 27 slides and bore the shit out of you.

23:30
Tab Norris
You said in there somewhere, one of your books, you thought selling is puking or something.

23:35
Tom Stanfill
I don't know exactly.

23:36
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, that's guttural enough to make someone understand the customer only wants to know what's in it for them, and they want to know what's in it for them right away. And I would rather say to a customer, I say, look, I'm going to talk to you about what you need, and I'm going to help you whether you use me or not. Because there may be somebody out there better than me for you. I'd like to meet them and shake their hand. But in case I'm not, I'll tell you where you can go to find the help you need. Because I'm there to help. I'm not there to sell. And people don't like to be sold, but they love to buy. Opening quote in a little red book. I've trademarked it, actually.

24:22
Tab Norris
I know, I saw that.

24:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, you owe me a quarter.

24:26
Tab Norris
But I gave you credit, right?

24:27
Tom Stanfill
I gave you credit.

24:29
Jeffrey Gitomer
Thank you very kindly. Yeah. But this is the real challenge. That salesperson must be perceived as different and valuable. No differentiation. No value difference. And they become like everybody else. And then the third thing I'm looking for is social proof. So if I have a differentiation, if I have value perceived, and I have social proof, I can make a sale. If I don't, I'm going to fight somebody that does. Fight.

25:06
Tom Stanfill
To. Now, how do you do that, though, Jeffrey, when everybody has social proof? Like in our world, what we sell, everybody's got the quotes, everybody's got the case studies, everybody has.

25:17
Jeffrey Gitomer
I don't want a case study. I want a video, okay?

25:21
Tab Norris
Oh, interesting.

25:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
I only want a video. I only want a video. YouTube was not founded on.

25:31
Tom Stanfill
Customer. You think customer videos is key?

25:34
Tab Norris
Do you want a customer talking about, hey, here's my experience. This is what I experienced, what I.

25:40
Jeffrey Gitomer
Did, and this is how it happened. And everybody else was bullshit until these guys came along. And now I'm on top of the world.

25:47
Tab Norris
Well, that's where, when I was sharing those tips on learning about your customer. That's what you say. I mean, I thought that was really good. Get them in a room. Bring them in video, get it on video. Get people talking.

26:00
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm embarking on a secret project that will, I think, change the face of how people are trained, because I don't want to learn somebody else's system. I'm not into the Challenger sale.

26:14
Tom Stanfill
Right.

26:16
Jeffrey Gitomer
I think the Challenger sale is bullshit. Because you got a 26 year old kid challenging a 55 year old CEO. Seriously, go away.

26:26
Tab Norris
I've tried that before.

26:28
Tom Stanfill
Well, it's also emotionally. You just look at emotionally, when someone's emotionally closed, which they are, and the more you try to persuade them, the more closed they become. It just backfires. It's like they're not open to being challenged unless they're saying, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'd love to know, who are you.

26:50
Jeffrey Gitomer
And why should I give you 30 minutes of my time?

26:52
Tab Norris
Right.

26:54
Jeffrey Gitomer
And 30 minutes is a lot of time.

26:59
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Especially if you're talking to CEO.

27:01
Jeffrey Gitomer
And what I would tell people in New York City is, give me block a half an hour. Give me five minutes. If you don't like what I'm saying in five minutes, throw me out. Fair enough.

27:13
Tab Norris
See, that's just real. There's no bullshit to your point.

27:16
Jeffrey Gitomer
Totally. And in New York, you have no choice. Yeah, you have no choice because there's somebody right behind you waiting to go.

27:24
Tab Norris
Yeah.

27:25
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You've got to differentiate yourself. You got to be a, why me?

27:29
Jeffrey Gitomer
Right.

27:29
Tom Stanfill
But it starts with, what you're saying is, it's all about them.

27:36
Jeffrey Gitomer
How do I give you perceived value? By talking to you about your stuff. And what I can do when we're done? Just press hard. Three copies.

27:47
Tom Stanfill
So why do you think, Jeffrey, it's hard for sellers to do that. Because we've been talking about this for 20 something years. About, you have to have bringing the expertise. You have to be able to communicate new truths about a better way to solve the decision making problem. Right. You've got to understand what's on their whiteboard. We're always preaching that. So why do so few sellers do that or have that expertise?

28:10
Jeffrey Gitomer
You have to be rejected a bunch of times in order to be able to get to that positive state, and you have to be able to take it and not blame. This is a crucial part of selling. The guy said he wasn't interested. Oh, really? That means, dude, you were not interesting. Let's get down to the heart of it. You were boring and you're blaming the customer. The guy didn't call me back. The guy took a lower price. The guy said he wasn't interested, didn't.

28:41
Tom Stanfill
See the value, said it was too expensive.

28:43
Jeffrey Gitomer
Right. So stop blaming and start taking responsibility, and you have a shot at it. Until you stop blaming, you're going to be a mediocre salesperson who's always in danger of losing their job.

28:58
Tom Stanfill
I think that's an important point, Tab.

29:00
Tab Norris
Yeah, I agree. I like it. People give up too easily. I mean, you're right. I mean, you learn so much by failure.

29:09
Tom Stanfill
Well, you have two ways of coming out of a meeting. You can say exactly what you said. You can say it didn't go well because.

29:18
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, exactly.

29:18
Tom Stanfill
Circumstances happen that have nothing to do.

29:22
Jeffrey Gitomer
The guy had a better relationship with his vendor for 20 years.

29:25
Tom Stanfill
And I feel better. It's easier. It feels better for me to say, totally, it's out of my control. It doesn't hurt. I couldn't have done anything about it. Or you're vindicated, or I come out of the meeting, I go, I've done that better. I could have done that better. I should have known that. I didn't know that. I'm going to go learn that. And if it's all about what I can do better, then I get better every time. And what you're saying is most people would rather blame shift than take ownership, because that's correct. Painful short term. It's painful long term.

29:54
Jeffrey Gitomer
You don't want to admit that vulnerability anyway.

29:57
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right.

29:58
Tab Norris
Well, one of the things I love, Jeffrey, that I 100% agree with you on, is be a learner your whole life. I'm getting up there myself. I've been doing this a long time. If I ever stop learning, I'll start dying in whatever area.

30:13
Jeffrey Gitomer
That's exactly.

30:14
Tab Norris
So I'm with you.

30:17
Tom Stanfill
Go ahead. I want to cut you off.

30:18
Jeffrey Gitomer
No, the challenge is most people are watching Netflix and drinking a beer.

30:24
Tab Norris
That is so true.

30:26
Tom Stanfill
Wait, hold on. Is that a problem?

30:32
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm writing a book. You decide. Even though I should, instead of watching.

30:40
Tom Stanfill
Netflix and drinking a beer, you're writing a book.

30:42
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah.

30:43
Tab Norris
There you go.

30:43
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I've heard of writers say that.

30:47
Jeffrey Gitomer
But I will hang with my daughter. One of my daughters is young, 14, and give girls.

30:55
Tab Norris
Yeah, I have one.

30:57
Jeffrey Gitomer
So did they watch Wednesday on Netflix?

31:01
Tab Norris
If they did, I don't know.

31:03
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay. Wednesday is the Addams Family. Wednesday. She grows up, becomes super weird, goes to this weird high school and all kinds of scary things happen.

31:16
Tab Norris
Oh, wow. Okay.

31:18
Jeffrey Gitomer
A billion.

31:19
Tom Stanfill
Not a true story, Cap.

31:21
Tab Norris
I thought the Adams family was real.

31:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
A billion people have watched it. A billion people want to get with the program.

31:30
Tab Norris
They are writing books.

31:32
Jeffrey Gitomer
I watched it. It's the first thing. There's eight episodes. I watched a couple of stranger things, but this is the first thing I watched. Watched. And it was phenomenal. It was filmed in a castle in Romania.

31:48
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

31:49
Jeffrey Gitomer
And I have A client in Romania. I did a seminar there. This summer, 800 people came to a public seminar, and I'm going to bring my daughter back to the castle, where they've arranged a private tour for her.

32:02
Tom Stanfill
No way.

32:03
Tab Norris
Wow.

32:04
Jeffrey Gitomer
What they don't know is I'm hiring people to stand behind doors and scare the shit out of it.

32:12
Tab Norris
That is awesome.

32:16
Tom Stanfill
That's great.

32:17
Tab Norris
That's worth the podcast right there.

32:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
But it's, how do you interact with your kids? If you're not with them, you have a big problem. So I'm a music guy, and my daughter's a know, she's a swiftie, and Lana Del Rey, who's one of the best singer, dirtiest lyrics I've ever heard in my life. But Olivia Rodrigo is coming to Charlote. So I said to my daughter, let's go. She goes, you're going to go? I go, yeah, let's pick out our outfits. Because I'm really close personal friends with Harvey McKay. The guy that wrote swimming.

32:59
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I heard you mention him in the book. Yeah.

33:01
Jeffrey Gitomer
And he and I have been friends literally for 30 years. He's like my dad, but he says, don't call me your dad, call me your brother, because it sounds older if I'm your dad.

33:11
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right.

33:12
Jeffrey Gitomer
But Harvey turned 90.

33:14
Tom Stanfill
Wow. Several Harvey McKay swim of the Sharks. I want everybody to know that he wrote a famous book. Great book.

33:24
Jeffrey Gitomer
He took 300 people to the Elton John concert in Phoenix over the summer to celebrate his birthday.

33:32
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

33:32
Jeffrey Gitomer
300 people. Wow. And I'm sitting there and I go, you know, I saw Elton John in Philly 50 years ago with 200 people in the room and his first concert tour in America.

33:45
Tom Stanfill
You did not.

33:45
Jeffrey Gitomer
So I have the whole span of the Elton John lifetime that I got to relive at this concert.

33:54
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

33:55
Jeffrey Gitomer
And things happen in your life that give you those memories. Those things. And music creates that memory. Music creates that memory. I challenge salespeople all the time. If you don't walk into a sales call humming a tune, something's wrong.

34:13
Tom Stanfill
That's a good idea. I've done that I remember listening. I was nervous about a big presentation. I was making a salesforce and it was like a big opportunity tab. This was, I don't know, ten years aGo. And I remember listening to Michael Jackson before the thriller. Were you doing? Yeah, it was like, literally, it was like I was prepping and I walked in the bathroom. It was playing or something. It was in the hall. I don't know, it was in the building somewhere. And then I just said, this is a great idea. And I just started listening. I mean, I was just totally.

34:44
Jeffrey Gitomer
I listen to music all the time.

34:46
Tab Norris
Me too.

34:47
Jeffrey Gitomer
I just did a seminar for a company. I don't want to say their name, but it was on cold calling, which I hate. I think cold calling is the biggest waste of time on the planet, but this company's whole deal is cold calling.

34:59
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

35:00
Jeffrey Gitomer
So they said, do you want to have music before you talk? I said, yeah. So I asked them for Yvonne Baker and the sensations song from the 60s called Let me in. And they loved it. That's how you tie it into the message?

35:17
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I love it. I want to go back to the daughter.

35:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
Sure.

35:21
Tom Stanfill
And your family because I don't want to run out of time. Before I ask this question, what have you learned about selling in relationships that you've been able to apply to having healthy relationships with the people that matter the most?

35:34
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm a family business guy. I grew up in a family business. I think America is run by a family business and I own a family business. My family is an integral part of the process. And my goal in the business is not to make my daughters productive, it's to make them proud. They're proud to work for their dad. And that's the essence of it. We give away free food, we give away free health insurance, we give away health club memberships, we have good benefits. But the bottom line is it's all about how I conduct myself and what I need to do in the world. What do I need to do? And I'm edgy. I was banned on US Airways for eleven months. If you ever go into my Wikipedia page. But here's the deal.

36:35
Jeffrey Gitomer
Three months before they banned me, take a look at this. They send me this and it says, top 500 customers. So I'm on their top 500 customer list. And then they banned me for eleven months. There's 1000 talk posts about me on Flyer Talk. It was back in 2003. But my kids, I gather around, I said, listen, I'm going to be the only person ever banned on US Airways. Is that cool or what? It's like a badge of honor. So you take those negative things and you turn them positive and you win. You have to keep the momentum up. And the year later after that, we won the Business Journal Award for the most fun place to work in Charlote.

37:22
Tom Stanfill
That's awesome.

37:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
How do you win that award? And I asked my audiences, can you win that award? Because if you can't fix it.

37:31
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, fix your call.

37:34
Jeffrey Gitomer
What's so serious about it that you can't have a little fun with it?

37:38
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

37:39
Jeffrey Gitomer
So that's how I look at it, and I create atmospheres in my family and in my business, and that transfers into how I act and react when I'm out on the road.

37:50
Tab Norris
That's your culture. You created that culture, and it's part of everything you do. Yeah, that's great.

37:57
Jeffrey Gitomer
My philosophy ends with, and I have fun, and I do that every day.

38:01
Tab Norris
I believe that.

38:03
Jeffrey Gitomer
Well, there's a strategy. I have one philosophy that I try to live every day, and it's not always easy, but I try. I make ten people smile, and I create one random act of kindness.

38:17
Tom Stanfill
And when you do, role model that for your family.

38:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
Oh, yeah. Because when someone smiles at me, it makes me smile back. So I keep myself pumped up by doing it. And there's some places that are a little more glow than others. You have to work at know, because if I'm in New York, it's harder to make people smile.

38:36
Tom Stanfill
It's hard to get people to look at you.

38:39
Tab Norris
Right.

38:40
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm standing online in Starbucks. And next. Hey, how's it going? How's it going? And they go, what do you want?

38:51
Tom Stanfill
My favorite thing to do in this situation is say nothing, because they don't know what to do. Because they're like, look at you.

38:59
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm sorry I confused you with someone that gave a shit.

39:03
Tom Stanfill
Well, they don't want to say, how may I help you?

39:05
Jeffrey Gitomer
But they don't want to.

39:07
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, they don't want to say. They don't know what to say.

39:09
Jeffrey Gitomer
Sometimes they just lift their eyes up, right?

39:12
Tom Stanfill
And then I just stand there. They're like, what? They really don't know what to say. I think I find that fascinating.

39:22
Jeffrey Gitomer
I carry my attitude with me. It's always sunny in 72, where I live. No matter where I am or what the weather is. I don't care about the weather at all. I care about what I care about. I don't care about it. I care about me.

39:37
Tom Stanfill
You're the catalyst that determines the temperature.

39:39
Jeffrey Gitomer
I'm the guy that makes it happen.

39:41
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And it's very infectious. I mean, I got fired up reading your book. I really did.

39:46
Jeffrey Gitomer
I only talk to people that are the same as me. I'm sorry. I confused it with someone that was happy.

39:58
Tom Stanfill
Well, it is really back to your original point. It's like people typically blame people or circumstances, then take responsibility for what do I need to do to fix it. I always say if I'm disturbed, I'm wrong. If I don't have that attitude, there's something wrong with me. It's not something wrong with the world, there's something wrong with me.

40:18
Jeffrey Gitomer
I agree.

40:18
Tom Stanfill
And I can fix me. I can fix me.

40:22
Jeffrey Gitomer
As we're talking, as peers.

40:25
Tab Norris
Yes.

40:26
Jeffrey Gitomer
I want you to give me your artificial intelligence prowess. At this moment.

40:33
Tom Stanfill
On a scale of one to ten.

40:34
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah.

40:35
Tom Stanfill
Three.

40:37
Tab Norris
I'd say 2.75.

40:43
Jeffrey Gitomer
I want you to think about this for just a second.

40:46
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

40:48
Jeffrey Gitomer
AI is about five years old. Think about where the car was when it was five. Think about where the radio or the telephone or the television was when it was five years old. That's where AI is at this moment.

41:04
Tom Stanfill
It's kind of scary.

41:06
Jeffrey Gitomer
It is primitive, and I think that there's an opportunity for sales companies and salespeople to take advantage of it. And I can tell you I'm knee deep in my own avatar, which will appear in another couple of weeks, and all of my intellectual property in one pool so that someone can access me any time of the day or night, anywhere in the world.

41:33
Tom Stanfill
Oh, that's interesting.

41:34
Jeffrey Gitomer
And get answer in any language.

41:38
Tom Stanfill
Wow. Yeah. There's AI working.

41:40
Tab Norris
There's AI. It's so funny, Jeffrey, Tom and I, we just were doing a strategy meeting, and guess what? We were talking about this, and I think it is on my top of my list of what you talk about being a learner. This is what I'm double clicking into. I'm 100% in agreement with you. I feel like it's so early and it's just the wild, the new frontier, and we have to be connected and knowing what's going on. So I'm with you.

42:08
Jeffrey Gitomer
And people are focusing their attention on chat GPT. And I'm going to tell you, there are currently 1500 AI channels.

42:19
Tab Norris
Yeah, that's what I'm learning, because that's how it was. Chat GPT time. That's when we first started talking about it. I started digging in and I was fascinated by what was all out there.

42:27
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, literally, it's the web in 2001.

42:32
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, exactly. Crazy. And Apple was $2 a share, and so was Amazon. But here's the real deal. People look at AI as a shortcut and I stop them and say, no, it's a tool.

42:48
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that's what I was about to do. I wanted to talk about that.

42:52
Jeffrey Gitomer
And the tool is you get answer from Chat GPT, which you can refine, and then you have to personalize it to that customer that's going out to. Or you look like everybody else.

43:03
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, exactly. Because everybody's going to say the same thing.

43:06
Jeffrey Gitomer
No chat. He's going to say the same thing.

43:09
Tom Stanfill
Because I always talk about, you got to curate. You can't copy and paste. You can't just say, pull it. Well, let's connect the AI because I think it's really prevalent in prospect, right. When you talk about cold call prospecting and people going, okay, what's the best? Yeah, they're getting all this information. They're just shooting it to customers. And AI is sending messages on a company's behalf, which means we're all just being overwhelmed. So we just delete anything that doesn't look like it's from a human. So a, has it killed cold calling, has it killed prospecting in the traditional sense? And if it hasn't, how do we leverage it?

43:49
Jeffrey Gitomer
Well, people are saying, is AI going to eliminate my job? And I tell people, if you suck, probably, yeah.

43:55
Tab Norris
It won't just be AI, though.

44:00
Jeffrey Gitomer
I have renamed AI to actual intelligence because if you don't look at it from that perspective, you're going to lose. Now I'm going to give you an example, one of my best lines on a cold call. And you put that into the chat GPT and it comes back with ten or 15 lines. Okay, great. Or you can say, I sell appliances in a discount store. What's the best way for me to greet a customer? Or I sell cars. You teach them who you are and then they will come back to you more personalized. That's one small strategy of talking to a computer. You're not going to get humor, you.

44:44
Tom Stanfill
Got to get context. Yeah.

44:46
Jeffrey Gitomer
You're not going to get emotion. It's a computer. So you're going to have to add humor, you're going to have to add emotion and then you have a shot at it. Otherwise you're dead. I mean, you're literally dead. So if you take, I need a tweet on customer service. No, dude, what you need to do is have something that people are willing to retweet or like, or comment on. That's what you need. Right. And the only way that's going to happen is if you customize whatever you get back from them. So yes, it will save you time. No, it will not give you the answer that you're looking for unless you customize it.

45:24
Tom Stanfill
But it can give you a start. Like I found that it sparks. I asked it when I first dove in, how has selling changed? Or how does buyers buy? What is changing the buyer, marketer and selling or whatever. And I can't remember exactly how I set it up, but it gave me some language back that started moving me in a direction or helped me describe something. But it still needs to be mine and it still needs to be from a human.

45:54
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, and if it's not yours, people know it right away. Like, that doesn't sound like Tom. No, it sounds like.

46:07
Tom Stanfill
Think. What? So if I'm a new seller, I'm a new sales rep, and I'm working for a company that's not going to give me enough leads, and I'm working for a company that's not going to give me enough accounts, what do I do?

46:20
Jeffrey Gitomer
You go and talk to your existing customers and find out why they buy. Because you think you're going to get it through artificial intelligence or some lead source for you. Not going to happen. And they're all over the place. I can get you 30 leads a week. Right. But they blow.

46:40
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right.

46:44
Jeffrey Gitomer
Worse than the sales guy.

46:46
Tom Stanfill
What is blow?

46:49
Jeffrey Gitomer
But here's the deal then. The sales guy blames the lead company for bad leads. So just get out of that business.

46:58
Tom Stanfill
So talk to your customers about why they buy. And then do what?

47:02
Jeffrey Gitomer
And then go talk to a new prospect and say, would you like to know why our last ten customers bought from us?

47:08
Tom Stanfill
Got you. So you're basically saying cold calling is you still can prospect, but you don't like cold calling. So what did you mean?

47:16
Jeffrey Gitomer
I go to networking events. I give a speech at a trade show. I do things where I can expose myself to new customers without having to say, can I have five minutes of your time? Because I swear to God, please don't hang up. And you look like an idiot. And with that, there has to be an understanding of foundational information. Like it hasn't changed in 150 years. It has not changed in 150 years of being nice to people, being humorous, being polite, caring about them, focus on.

47:54
Tom Stanfill
What'S important to them. We call being other centered.

47:56
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, that's fine. So I'm a student of the founders of personal development in this country, and Dale Carnegie, of which, or Napoleon Hill, of which they're the third wave. People think of them as the originals. They're not even close.

48:14
Tom Stanfill
Who's the original?

48:16
Jeffrey Gitomer
Samuel smiles.

48:18
Tom Stanfill
Samuel smiles?

48:19
Jeffrey Gitomer
Smiles.

48:19
Tab Norris
I don't know. Samuel smiles.

48:20
Tom Stanfill
Maybe we can have him on the podcast.

48:23
Jeffrey Gitomer
He's a little dead.

48:28
Tom Stanfill
Partially dead.

48:29
Jeffrey Gitomer
His first book was called Self Help.

48:32
Tab Norris
Samuel Smiles.

48:33
Tom Stanfill
Well, Benjamin Franklin was well known for a lot of his self help.

48:39
Jeffrey Gitomer
Samuel Smiles was the guy. He invited all these people over to his house in England. His granddaughter wrote about all the people that came there and talked about. But when you read this guy, it's like, oh my God, oh my God. That's first guy. Second guy was arising. Sweat Martin. Aris and Sweat Martin wrote 41 books on self help. And there's a book by Napoleon Hill where he writes about Martin and said, these are the ten books I recommend and six of them were artists and Sweat Martin. Jeez, I wonder where Napoleon Hill got his info.

49:21
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right.

49:22
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay. And then Hill and Carnegie were at the same. They're the contemporaries. Although I don't know anything about their relationship. I don't think they even knew each other. But Dale Carnegie, let me show you what came in the mail today, because I bid on stuff from eBay and stuff. This is a brochure I got.

49:48
Tab Norris
When's that? From the 50s.

49:52
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

49:52
Jeffrey Gitomer
And this is the Dale Carnegie course.

49:55
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

49:55
Jeffrey Gitomer
Look at public speaking and stuff like that. This little brochure, it's amazing. Okay. But I got it as a pretty cool because I bought this book that went with it, the Dale Carnegie, how to stop worrying and start living.

50:09
Tab Norris
Oh, that's great.

50:10
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah. Well, let me show you something else about.

50:16
Tom Stanfill
Not. It's signed by Dale Carnegie. Wow.

50:18
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, it's signed and it's a first edition.

50:23
Tom Stanfill
Wow.

50:24
Tab Norris
First print.

50:29
Jeffrey Gitomer
It's my second copy that I bought of it. I was offered $25,000 for one copy of it by a Dale Carnegie franchisee and I turned them down.

50:39
Tab Norris
That's awesome.

50:42
Tom Stanfill
Did you ever think about being a Dale Carnegie franchisee?

50:45
Jeffrey Gitomer
No, I taught sales for them for three years. Yeah. And Dale Carnegie's biggest quote is, don't criticize, condemn or complain. And all of the people in that organization, that's what they do.

51:03
Tab Norris
So you were done. You're like, I'm not having fun.

51:06
Tom Stanfill
Then we turn to page 83.

51:09
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, exactly. And I don't want to speak badly about them because I love Dale Carnegie and some of the franchisees are great people. They're very successful, but some of them are whiners.

51:20
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right. I've heard a lot about red whiners.

51:25
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, exactly. You can't be a winner if you're a whiner.

51:32
Tab Norris
Boy, we just dropped the mic on that.

51:35
Tom Stanfill
Can't be a winner if you're a whiner. I like it. We've had theme there of just ownership kind of connected to that before we run out of time, because you write a lot about fear, overcoming fear. And I think that people tend to talk about, like you said at the beginning of the podcast, tactics and strategy and plays, those are all about things, and I get it. These are things we can control for easy to understand. And as soon as we move into some of the deeper concepts, like how does the customer actually buy? Right. How do we take ownership? And some of the things that actually, I think, fundamentally drive success. But I think the fear thing may be the biggest nemesis. It's behind why I think we want to blame shift. And you said failure is not.

52:24
Tom Stanfill
Look at failure as an event, not a person. I love that.

52:28
Jeffrey Gitomer
Thanks. I like that.

52:29
Tom Stanfill
I love that line. I love that because it just happened. This happened, but it's not who I am. It's something to be learned from. But talk to us about how you've helped your customers, sales reps, attendees, audience, all the people you've spoken to over the years to get over their fear.

52:45
Jeffrey Gitomer
People say that giving a speech is more fearful the person giving it fears than death. And there's a reason. It's because if you give a shitty speech, you're still alive. Okay. Drive it.

53:05
Tab Norris
I've experienced that you wish you were dead.

53:10
Tom Stanfill
In high school, when I gave my shitty speech, I was still alive.

53:16
Jeffrey Gitomer
But I challenge salespeople that the reason you're afraid is because you're unprepared.

53:23
Tab Norris
Yeah.

53:24
Jeffrey Gitomer
If you're more prepared. The more prepared you are, the less fearful you are. And you convert fear to excitement. It's the same anxiety, it's the same thought process. So if I'm fearful of something, or I'm excited to do something, I'm going to win. I can't wait to go to that sales call. Oh, gosh, I hope the guy shows up. Come on. The reason the guy didn't show up is because you probably sucked and were boring, right? The guy didn't return my call. Why? Because the message you left him sucked. I'm calling about the proposal, and I was wondering if you had any questions. You don't care. I'm calling about the money. Is it ready? Yeah.

54:13
Tab Norris
You got my commission yet?

54:14
Tom Stanfill
I'm following up to see if you want the buying.

54:17
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, but here's the deal. They're not having enough fun, and their manager has got a pipe up his ass, and we need a better attitude around here. Okay, great. Start with your own.

54:32
Tom Stanfill
Role model.

54:36
Jeffrey Gitomer
Sales is about leadership to begin with. Because I want to inspire my people. I'm going to coach them, not threaten them. If they're on my team, I want them to score.

54:46
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

54:47
Jeffrey Gitomer
If they're on my team, I want you to score. And when you score, I'm going to carry you off the field on my.

54:52
Tom Stanfill
Shoulders, because you're making it about your players.

54:57
Jeffrey Gitomer
Well, you both have kids.

55:01
Tom Stanfill
Yes.

55:02
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay. How old are your kids?

55:06
Tab Norris
Mine are 26, 24 and 19.

55:12
Jeffrey Gitomer
Do you have any grandkids?

55:13
Tab Norris
I do not.

55:15
Jeffrey Gitomer
You?

55:15
Tab Norris
Tom does.

55:16
Tom Stanfill
Minor 40 down to 34. And I have 14 grandchildren.

55:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
Okay, so you're obviously Catholic.

55:28
Tom Stanfill
That's not true. But.

55:31
Jeffrey Gitomer
I want you to think about this. When a one year old is starting to walk, there's no threats. There's only encouragement. Come on, walk to Daddy. Come on, you can do it. If you're not walking in two weeks, no college. Exactly.

55:52
Tom Stanfill
No college. Cutting you off.

55:55
Jeffrey Gitomer
Right? So think about that and how you have to deal with the salesperson who's not doing well. Are you going to threaten him or her? Are you going to encourage them? Come on, let me take you out on a bunch of sales calls and show you how it's done.

56:09
Tom Stanfill
Right.

56:10
Jeffrey Gitomer
As opposed to. Well, you're not doing that. Right. Well, dude, teach me, work with me, coach me. So that's where I'm at with that. And the whole fear thing usually stems from, I'm not making my quota. I'm going to die. They're going to fire me.

56:28
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

56:29
Jeffrey Gitomer
So I'm afraid of the quota.

56:33
Tom Stanfill
But I'm also afraid of failure. I'm afraid of, like you said, you give the speech.

56:36
Jeffrey Gitomer
I don't want to get turned down. I don't want to lose it.

56:39
Tom Stanfill
Personal. I think it's personal. Yeah. I think it goes back to your event, not a person. I'm defined by that event. If I don't do that well, then I am less than. And I'm associated with my success in sales or my success in that performance. And that's not true. It's based on. That was just an event. May have had a bad day. Maybe I didn't prepare enough. Maybe there was somebody that offered something better, or maybe they're doing business with an in law. It wasn't winnable, but I'm not defined.

57:14
Jeffrey Gitomer
You take it seriously, but not personally.

57:17
Tom Stanfill
Well said.

57:18
Tab Norris
I like tHat. Serious but not personal.

57:21
Jeffrey Gitomer
That's good, because if you take it personally, you're going to cry.

57:26
Tom Stanfill
Or I won't do it again.

57:28
Jeffrey Gitomer
You're going to cry in your beer as you're watching Netflix. Yes.

57:32
Tab Norris
I need to write that book.

57:33
Tom Stanfill
I love it.

57:34
Jeffrey Gitomer
Yeah, I don't. I. At my age, time is my enemy. I have a limited amount of time and I'm going to invest my time. And there's three uses of time. Two of them are bad. I can waste time. I can spend time, or I can invest time. And spending time is I'm watching television, but investing time is I'm reading a book. I'm learning about my know, getting better at my craft.

58:12
Tab Norris
Yeah, whatever it is, my relationship with my daughter, whatever.

58:17
Jeffrey Gitomer
Boom. I'm taking my kid to Paris. Best investment of time you can make. And so you look at it from the perspective of that, and all of a sudden, I don't teach time management, I teach time allocation. Very subtle. But if I'm going to be awake 16 hours in a day, I've got 32 half hour blocks. What am I going to do in those 32 half hour blocks? Because if you fill them in, you're not going to waste time at all. There's no time to scroll on Instagram.

58:51
Tab Norris
Yeah, that's good. All right. I hate that. We're going to have to wrap this up. I mean, this has been fantastic.

59:01
Tom Stanfill
Speaking of the tabs and tabs, visiting his daughter in college. It's parents with him.

59:06
Tab Norris
Oh, I'm investing.

59:08
Tom Stanfill
He's investing.

59:10
Jeffrey Gitomer
You're investing in a liberal education. Tell him not to take marine biology.

59:17
Tom Stanfill
Steve.

59:18
Tab Norris
That marine biology.

59:20
Tom Stanfill
Seriously, thank you for your time. Thank you for joining. Thank you, sir. Dark audience. Well, yeah, I feel inspired, motivated. And I think you've captured some of the essence of being successful in our craft. And I thank you for elevating the role, because we need to be experts. We need to be more than selling something. We need to be about serving and helping our customers solve their problems.

59:43
Jeffrey Gitomer
I have a couple of ideas about AI. Why don't you guys come to Charlote and let me cook you pancakes for it?

59:50
Tom Stanfill
I love your. What is your definition of.

59:58
Jeffrey Gitomer
Actual intelligence?

01:00:00
Tom Stanfill
Actual intelligence? I love it. Yeah. And, hey, that'd give us a good reason to visit some of our friends in Charlote.

01:00:07
Tab Norris
We have some great friends in Charlote. We love Charlotte. That'd be great. We'd love that.

01:00:11
Jeffrey Gitomer
Cool.

01:00:12
Tom Stanfill
Are they world famous pancakes, Jeffrey? Because my dad says he got an award for the world famous, the best pancakes in the world is this arrival.

01:00:20
Jeffrey Gitomer
I can beat a chef. And if you're from the south, you have to have bacon. So it's pancakes and serve.

01:00:28
Tom Stanfill
They don't serve bacon up in the North.

01:00:30
Jeffrey Gitomer
Right. They don't serve a. Down in the south they have bacon. That's still moving.

01:00:38
Tom Stanfill
I hear you on that. I like my bacon crispy, Jeffrey. Thank you. Best of luck, my friend. Great.

01:00:44
Jeffrey Gitomer
I do. People call my people. Well, I'm serious about arranging something, because when my AI channel launches, you're going to want to be involved.

01:00:52
Tab Norris
Excellent.

01:00:53
Tom Stanfill
We'd love that. Thank you, Jeffrey.

01:00:55
Jeffrey Gitomer
For everybody listening, stay away from idiots.

01:01:00
Tab Norris
That's a good takeaway right there.

01:01:03
Jeffrey Gitomer
All right.

01:01:03
Tom Stanfill
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Sales with Aslan. With pleasure.

01:01:07
Jeffrey Gitomer
You take care. Cheers. Cheers