Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from Ep. 181 – 5 Reasons Why Deals Stall

After a brief summer hiatus, Tom and Tab are back with another episode of SALES with ASLAN!

They discuss the frustrations of having a deal stall and five things that we as sellers can do (things that are in our control) to keep the deal from stalling. Whether you’re selling a thousand-dollar product or a million-dollar solution, how do you keep the deal moving forward?

Listen to the conversation here:

Or check out the full transcript:

00:13
Tom Stanfill
Welcome back to another episode of Sales with Aslan. I am your host, Tab, I’m the host. We decided that I would be the host and that you would be the co host. Because our vast audience may not know this, Tab, but it’s because I’m taller and faster.

00:33
Tab Norris
Yeah, I know. And I’ve lived with that my whole life with that.

00:39
Tom Stanfill
It’s certainly not based on intelligence. We did not, I chose the categories.

00:45
Tab Norris
You chose the categories.

00:48
Tom Stanfill
Wait a minute. And we use it now. Actually, I’m not faster anymore. That’s really upsetting. Okay, maybe we should I’ll change the category.

00:57
Tab Norris
I love that you’re the host. It’s a lot of pressure to be the host. I don’t have the hair that you have.

01:03
Tom Stanfill
No, this is a podcast. We don’t want to tease the audience. That’s true. But we are in our summer series, Tab. We’ve had a little bit of a hiatus. So it’s good to be back in the studio because we haven’t had a ton of podcasts cranking out this summer because of travel and extravaganza and just kind of a little bit of a summer slowdown. But we’re back. We’re back in the studio.

01:27
Tab Norris
We had to sharpen the saw, Tom. We had to get refreshed and replenished. I feel great. School year’s begun here.

01:34
Tom Stanfill
We, too. We took a little bit of summer break. Now we’re back in school.

01:39
Tab Norris
Yeah.

01:39
Tom Stanfill
I love our topic today, Tab, because I think this might be my greatest frustration when selling is deals that stall.

01:52
Tab Norris
Oh, yeah.

01:55
Tom Stanfill
Is there anything mean, maybe being in a really competitive situation that you work really hard and you lose the competition? Yeah.

02:04
Tab Norris
And they just tell you straight up, thank you for participating, but we had looked at six and you finished number six. That hurts, too.

02:12
Tom Stanfill
That hurt. Yeah. I think worse than that, though, I think, is when you’re second.

02:18
Tab Norris
Well, you’re right.

02:19
Tom Stanfill
It’s like being on The Bachelor. Nothing. You just almost were chosen, but you’re not but I don’t know, I may put this in second behind that of when a deal so you work really hard. You’ve had several meetings, everything’s positive. Or maybe you just had one meeting and all of a sudden it just nothing goes well.

02:46
Tab Norris
And you and I talk about this all the time. You think about a topic that’s very fitting. I mean, we have lots of conversations about, like, what’s going on? What did I do? Did I miss something? Why is this thing stalling? Tab? Tom, give me some ideas. Let’s kick this around. So I think this is a great topic. I’m sure we’re not alone in that, Tom.

03:03
Tom Stanfill
No, I don’t think we’re alone. And actually, I’d be interested. I hope we could get some comments on this. I would love to hear others beyond just our sort of network of people that we work with if they’re feeling the same thing. But I think it’s gotten worse. I think people are busier. I think they’re overwhelmed. And one more email to write one more call to make one more whatever. Or maybe somebody else they’re working with. And it’s just because people are so busy they ended up going with the easier option or the latest option or whatever. So the focus today is five things that we can control. And I think that’s important. We want to focus on what we can control, not what we’re concerned about. Because what we can control are things that we can do. But five things that we can control that will help keep a deal from stalling.

03:57
Tom Stanfill
So that’s our topic today. Tab. I love it. And this is based on lots of research that we’ve done over the years. On really? Why does this happen? And I think number one and I talked about this recently on a webinar I think number one and this maybe surprise our listeners is that we have a sales process.

04:23
Tab Norris
Yeah, we do have a sales process.

04:26
Tom Stanfill
Yes.

04:26
Tab Norris
Thank you. That’s the number one. We have a sales. You’ve got my attention, Tom.

04:31
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we in we have a sales process. And by the way, I love a sales process.

04:38
Tab Norris
So you’re not saying that’s all bad?

04:40
Tom Stanfill
No, I think you need a sales process. Because we’re in sales. We have a process. But that’s a problem because the sales process is built for the seller. Here’s what I need to do. Here are the steps that I need to take and again, I’m all for that, right? Where are we? In our process? We’re in Qualify or Discovery and then we’re in the present or Capabilities presentation or then we in the proposal stage or whatever. If you buy salesforce.com, it comes with the process. And everybody I’ve ever met with has some sort of process for how they look at moving an opportunity through the funnel. The problem is the center of the story is the company or the seller. And the customer doesn’t care about your sales process. Right?

05:28
Tab Norris
They’re like, oh, mine doesn’t fit. Doesn’t Fit. What I’m trying to do over here doesn’t quite fit Tom with your process.

05:35
Tom Stanfill
And so I think the reason the deal stalls is because we’re looking at our process and not where the customer is in their process. And so, as much as I’m a fan of a sales process, I think we should start and drive our process by looking at what is the process the customer goes through to make a decision and implement a solution and what’s their journey? So what’s the customer’s journey?

06:02
Tab Norris
So the buyer’s journey.

06:04
Tom Stanfill
Buyer’s Journey. Because if we’re tuned into that and we align our next steps because really this is all about advancing, right? It’s all about? How do we move the deal forward? How do we move the opportunity forward? Whether you’re selling a $3,000 product or service or you’re selling a million dollar solution. We need to move it from the first conversation forward. And as long as we’re moving it forward, that’s the problem. It stops. We’re advancing. And obviously if we continue to advance, it’s going to move to hopefully in the positive direction, it’s going to move to we win, or at least resolution.

06:44
Tab Norris
Yeah. Thomas funny. If I could throw this in here. I was with a client not long ago, very a company that people would know, and you would think, we talked about this. The whole buyer journey, popped it up and kind of had this AHA that you just shared. You would have thought people’s minds were blown. They’re just going, you’re exactly right. Why have we not thought about this? We don’t think about this. And they said, this is kind of a big deal. You’re really kind of rocking my perspective here. This is a group of really successful salespeople. I’ve never really thought about that. And I think this is a big problem that we didn’t even know we had.

07:30
Tom Stanfill
It’s funny, and I think this is true for all of us. The gravitational pull to self is so strong, we dream about ourselves. We wake up in the morning, we’re thinking about ourselves. It’s the way we’re wired, is to think about our world, right, from our viewpoint. So, yes, it makes perfect sense that we should reorient, but it’s not natural. It’s just not natural. And so I agree with you. I had somebody reach out to me because I did a video. I posted a video on LinkedIn about the same topic, and somebody who I know is actually somebody I knew from high school, so he’s known him for a long time, so I know his age. He goes, I’ve been in sales I don’t know how many years, 30 plus years goes, no one’s ever told me this. And this guy is very successful. I’m like that’s.

08:16
Tom Stanfill
Interesting. It really doesn’t, but it’s great. We shouldn’t feel guilty about it. It’s just not intuitive, right? So we need to think about it. So let’s talk about the I think there’s five simple stages. I could break it down further, but for everybody involved, there’s really five destinations. It starts with the destination. Who we’re working with wants something, whether somebody’s talking to me about and I use this example a lot, renovating a house or buying a house or something. Very simple, right? I’m right now working on a new place that we bought. And so we’re meeting with people. The first thing they should ask me is, what’s the destination? And by the way, no one’s asked me that.

08:59
Tab Norris
They don’t know where you’re trying to go, what are you doing to do?

09:02
Tom Stanfill
What’s your dream about now? And so there’s people that I’ve met with about our little renovation project in our kitchen. They send me proposals, and I’ve gone dark on some of them because they don’t know what I want. What’s the destination? What is it that I want? Where am I going? What am I trying to accomplish? Because that’s what drives all my decisions. What do I want? And then the next thing I think about, well, what’s my strategy to get there? So I know I want something. My customer wants something. They’re trying to accomplish something at whatever level I’m in the organization, they want something. Then they’re going to come up with their strategy, their bet. I bet the best place for me, the best way for me to get that is and then that’s I start to think about my strategy. Well, then from that, I come up with my initiatives.

09:49
Tom Stanfill
Here are the things that I’m going to develop to get there, and now I’m going to start looking at my options. Where else do I need help? Where do I need outside? It could be internal. It could be external. But I’m going to look at my options to implement my initiatives, and then I’m going to implement. I’m going to do it right, and then I’m going to measure right. So these are the stages that I go through. So I think that’s very intuitive. So the question I would ask myself if I were in sales is, what do I offer? If I know that? What can I offer at each one of those stages?

10:25
Tab Norris
Be the trusted partner through each?

10:28
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. So let’s say somebody reaches out to me because they saw something, they downloaded something, and they just said, I think I’m kind of at the destination stage. I’m kind of trying to figure out what I want. I’m going to reach out to you, and you think they’re at the buying stage. You’re looking at your options. Yeah, I am, but I’m not sure where I’m going, but I’m trying to figure out where I’m going, but I don’t really know. And so I’m talking to people to help me figure out where I’m going.

10:59
Tab Norris
Right.

11:00
Tom Stanfill
Because that’s just part of it. So I’ve got to back up. A great example of this was one of our partners. I was working with her with a potential client, and it was a manufacturing company, and she was working with them, and they reached out to her about training, and, you know, this company, they reached out to her about training, and she started to figure out where they are in their journey. And they said, well, our destination is we’re trying to completely change our entire sales organization and how we sell. Our solution instead of being sort of relationship managers and educating our customers, because we sell through the channel, we want to really drive the process, and we want to communicate value, and we want to be more involved, and we want to change how we’re selling, to be more trusted partners. And we want to create demand, not just educate.

11:58
Tom Stanfill
Okay, so that’s what you’re doing. And then she says, well, okay, so that’s where you want to go. What are you working on? He goes, well, we need to do training. That’s one of the initiatives.

12:07
Tab Norris
Right.

12:08
Tom Stanfill
Well, as she got through some of the things that she goes, well, she realized you actually don’t have a compensation plan to support that. So she stopped the training initiative and started talking to them about, you need to first establish this. You need to set this up so that your training initiative will not be successful if you don’t do this. So she backed up the process, provided value, and then they started partnering together because ultimately and here’s what most people would have done, they said, Great, you want training? I’ll show you my training. I’ll do a proposal. And then that deal would have stalled because somebody else would have come in and said, well, you don’t even have a comp plan. Why are you going to do this? And then somebody else would have started working with them, and so the deal didn’t stall. So I think that’s a great example.

12:55
Tom Stanfill
Have you seen that?

12:56
Tab Norris
Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, you and I jumped on a call not long ago with someone who was I thought were down the road. And as I start talking to them, I’m realizing they’re at the destination phase. I don’t know if you remember, I brought you on to a call I remember that to talk about some destination things, some higher level things to think about from. If you’re going to go down this, you need to be thinking three years out, like, what does this look like? So to your right, I think that’s kept it alive. It’s because you’re going to where they are in the process versus, okay, we had our initial meeting. Now my next thing is I’ve got to do this review, and then I’m going to have to do this. And I’m going to have to do this. The struggle is there, though, because I don’t really like it.

13:46
Tab Norris
I don’t want them to be at the destination phase because that takes a while. It means I’m pretty far from a closed deal.

13:52
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, right. But here’s the cool thing. If you’re in early, you have so much more influence if you know how to help them. To your example, I met with another company almost a year ago that comes to mind, and they were building kind of similar to the one you’re talking about. They’re building kind of a new university. Well, so they were talking to us about what we do, but were way down the road. They really wanted to build a university. Yeah, well, okay, I don’t do that. I mean, they were talking about a university based on what they sell. Not how to sell, but about their products. It was a whole new thing for them. So now we started helping them figure out who they could work with to help them do that. So we started making introduction, so there were events that we could get commitment to that had to do with where they were helping.

14:52
Tom Stanfill
So we’re continually connected. So now when finally they’re ready, we will be the partner of choice. And by the way, I know what to be doing with them because until they move down the road, I don’t need to be spending my time going, how are you doing? I sent your proposal. What’s going on? What’s going on? What’s going on? Let’s touch base. Let’s touch base.

15:14
Tab Norris
It’s true. I mean, it’s exactly right. This is why this is so important to talk about. Because if we all get in that right mindset and you just keep throwing more and more opportunities out there, don’t worry about the outcome, just worry about being where the buyer is in the process. And by the way, you just keep filling your funnel with wherever they are in the process and you’re going to be fine.

15:37
Tom Stanfill
Just work the process because you can’t change the destination.

15:41
Tab Norris
You can’t shortcut it. I think salespeople think they can shortcut it. No, we’re not going to do that. I just want to quickly get to you buying my solution down here. Well, we’re not that good typically, no.

15:55
Tom Stanfill
But if you know, it like if you know what the etha steps are, you know what value. Now you’re trying to solve another problem. What value can I provide if I want to provide it, if I want to protect? So if they say this is my destination, you go where you’re going most likely is not where it’s not going.

16:17
Tab Norris
To be a good fit.

16:18
Tom Stanfill
I can’t help you. No, where you’re going is a really good fit. I think I can help you get there. I’m not sure, but I think I can help you get there. So if you want to pursue it, how can you add value at each stage your destination? How can I help you figure out what the destination looks like? How can I help you figure out what strategy looks like? And by the way, what’s the best place? And I think so many reps, I think, miss this, say, well, what am I going to offer around strategy? Well, I don’t know. You think about it. If we’ve worked with thousands of companies that have done the same thing, maybe I can share some best practices around what other companies have done to reach their destination. Yes, talk about value then that’s fun. I mean, it’s fun to be that person that’s sitting in a room going, yeah, well, I’ve worked with 60 other companies that have done the same thing and I want to share with you.

17:10
Tom Stanfill
They want to talk to you. They want to know, they want to go, well, what do you know? And that’s how you have success in a vertical is because you start working with a bank and the bank you don’t know what US bank is doing. And you go, well, here’s what other companies are. Obviously you can’t share proprietary information, but you can see what the best practices are.

17:29
Tab Norris
Yeah, I love it. So that’s the first that’s number one, right? Things that I can control.

17:35
Tom Stanfill
Number one control is don’t have a sales process. Don’t just have a sales process. Develop your customer buying process. Figure that out. And what events can you create for each one of those?

17:50
Tab Norris
It brings value. I like how you said that. It’s like, understand the buyer and then what? Think through what can I bring that as a value at each one of those stages? And we have to figure that out for ourselves.

18:05
Tom Stanfill
Exactly. Like, if we’re talking to people and they’re saying we want to train, but we got to build our team first. Right now, we’re in the process of figuring out, do we have I remember one time meeting with a company, and they were like, I’m not sure what we want to train. I know what our destination is. But the initiative but our strategy. We’re working through our strategy. And so I don’t know if we need to train because I don’t know if we have the right people. I’m like, well, how can I have so now the question is, how can I help them figure out if they have the right people? We bring a partner in to help them do that. And now, again, we’re becoming more embedded in the process. Longer process, but more control, more influence. You create more demand, and your win rate goes up.

18:44
Tom Stanfill
Next tab, which kind of connects to it. Is the next thing we can control? Or another way to say this is the mistake that we often make, or why deals stall is we don’t know who. We don’t know who.

18:59
Tab Norris
The old who problem we wonder why it stalled is because I’m talking to the wrong person or I’m at the wrong level. Right?

19:07
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And I still make this mistake. You meet with somebody, and they’re all excited about what you offer, and the conversation is great, and they’re all lit up, and they’re asking lots of questions. They want to learn more, and you just don’t want to go, well, yeah, but are you the right person? Yeah. There’s two kinds of people. I think that when they enter that situation, there’s the people that don’t want to ask because it feels selfish. You want to serve the person you’re talking to, and it feels like, hey, I’m talking to you at the party, but I really want to talk to I need to talk to somebody else, because they don’t want to be that person. And then there’s the other person, like, Are you the right person? I don’t want to talk to you if you’re not.

19:54
Tab Norris
Yeah. And then they just burn bridges, and who knows what they do, and then they can get shut down. There’s challenges on both sides. Right.

20:04
Tom Stanfill
So what’s your approach to finding out who you’re talking to and who else you need to be talking to I’ve asked you that because.

20:17
Tab Norris
I’m not the person that’s going to be number two in your example. I’m just not that person I care too much about. I’m just not going to go burn bridge. My personality is not going to do that. So I’m very connected to the feelings and the person that I’m talking for valid reason, because that person is my doorway into this organization. And I know even though they’re an evaluator, let’s say if I don’t do a good job with this person, forget all the rest of it. So I really work on making sure I develop a good relationship there. And then I just did this the other day, but I am asking these questions like, okay, so how’s this whole process going to work? You’re obviously very passionate about this, and this is where you want to go. Are you going to have headway? I mean, is this the kind of thing they just said, go get them, you go get them, and then all of a sudden they start talking about that.

21:11
Tab Norris
And then I start going, okay, are you kind of on your own on this thing? Well, I’m reporting directly to the president of this division. Oh, okay. Now what’s their say on to and then I said, well, so when in the process would Jack how would you envision Jack getting involved in this? Just that’s how I more millennial.

21:38
Tom Stanfill
Name tab.

21:39
Tab Norris
Do I?

21:40
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Taylor. Taylor.

21:42
Tab Norris
Jack’s not really good, is it susan. I use Susan and Jack a lot.

21:46
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we need to go more millennial, at least millennial. Zach. I think Zach would be good.

21:51
Tab Norris
Zach works. Yeah, I can see that, but no, so that’s my approach. It’s more collaborative and things are popping up in my head. I’m going, oh, that’s because sometimes you find there’s lots of layers and you’re part of a whole committee. Because I did the same thing with another one. I found out this person was one of, I think eight or ten on a committee that was formed from different division. All of a sudden I’m going, oh, gosh, this has got a lot more tentacles to it.

22:24
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. When I hear you say that, I kind of think of it as it’s categorized in two buckets. One is where did this come from and where’s this going?

22:34
Tab Norris
Yeah.

22:38
Tom Stanfill
And that’s the way that you ask that question. So are you on your own for this? Or like, I love that because you always want to assume I always like to assume that the person I’m talking to is the decision maker. So start there. So are you driving and they’ll correct you? Is this your initiative? Did you create this initiative? And they’ll start to tell you because ultimately you want to know, where does this come from? Because, by the way, if you are working with someone who’s lower level in the organization and it’s their idea, and then you were like, well, does this have the support of the organization? You’re starting to go I don’t know.

23:12
Tab Norris
If this yeah, we may be wasting our time here.

23:14
Tom Stanfill
Is this something that’s really going to happen? Because now we’re just on a research mission, and they’re trying to educate themselves, and they’re trying to be smarter in their job, and that’s fine, but I want to know where did it come from? Where did this come from and where is this going? I love the way you did this, but my little I guess the way that I kind of try to casually talk about it, I sort of make a joke, and I’ll say, so dream with me a little bit. Let’s just make this major dream. Let’s dream with me. Let’s make this major assumption that and I know this is crazy, but let’s just say that you decide, I have the best solution in the world. We provide exactly what you need. Let’s just make that assumption. I know you’re not making that assumption, but what would happen now?

24:05
Tab Norris
I love that.

24:06
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, what would happen? Well, then, now that’s the road forward. Well, I’d have to get funding. Okay, well, what would walk me through so I just like have me walk me through the process. And I think that’s the way I categorize it. And then as they start to reveal who else might have to go to so and so, and if I feel like they might be sensitive to me asking questions beyond what they’re sharing, I always want to answer the why question. Why do I want to know more about who else is in the process? And I say my role is to help you. If this is something you really believe in, my role is to help you make that happen and be the support mechanism. So if I know who else is involved, you and I can work together to communicate and answer the questions because I want to make sure you’re equipped and available.

25:06
Tom Stanfill
And I’ll start to say there’s six things that we’ve got to communicate for this to happen. I’ve been doing this for blah, blah, and so I want to make that easy for you. So it’s more of a collaborative approach, but I’m also communicating. It’s not easy. We’re talking about a solution that’s very complex and has all these elements, and the last thing you probably want to do is do all the work to communicate that. So I’m here to help. And so that’s how the message I’m ultimately sending.

25:34
Tab Norris
I love it. It’s funny. Just so everybody knows, I’m still learning 30 years of selling and doing this, teaching it, being around it for a long time. And I was going to throw this out because maybe you can relate. I’m in the middle of a stalled deal right now because everything that you just said is true. I should have done that, and I know that I should have done that, and I didn’t do that and guess why? Because it seems so easy. I’m talking to this person, they’re the evaluator but we’re a perfect fit. Everything looks great so I cut corners. So I don’t do that because I’m just like it ain’t going to matter. We’re in. I mean this thing is done and then it’s not and then now it’s stalled and because I didn’t do it the right way I’m stuck.

26:24
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, stuck.

26:26
Tab Norris
Is that a perfect example of what we’re talking about?

26:30
Tom Stanfill
I’m thinking of a deal right now that I made that mistake because it’s.

26:36
Tab Norris
Just an easy.

26:39
Tom Stanfill
And I think the people that are good at this kind of have this constant paranoid. They’re constantly paranoid. They’re like they have this mindset that something bad is going to happen or they’re connected to the arch enemy and they’re talking to them and they just always have that in their mind. So they’re typically better at thinking through this. So you can just forget or you just can feel comfortable. And I think that’s a current that we have to move against for some of us and I’m that way too because it feels so easy. They want to know more and they’re ready to set up a meeting and we’re going to do that anyway and so let’s do that and we’re going to do a capabilities press because they want to look at the solution because they’re looking at their options and they’re all excited about it and it all looks good, and we set that up and they don’t show.

27:33
Tab Norris
I know it’s just crazy. And you may not know this about me, Tom, but I’ve been told a few times in my life that I’m a little overly optimistic. Maybe you can relate, you’re very.

27:45
Tom Stanfill
Good thing but it’s good.

27:46
Tab Norris
But I have to be cautious of it because we all have a growing edge, right? We all in sales, we all have our spot because my strengths of optimism are good.

27:57
Tom Stanfill
But I would take that over negative. Yeah.

28:01
Tab Norris
But it does have a downside.

28:03
Tom Stanfill
I would rather work on being a little paranoid and making asking that question. Here’s the thing, that for those that are uncomfortable having that type of conversation about who else is involved is I’ve learned this if they’re not willing to have that conversation, the deal is not real.

28:25
Tab Norris
Yeah. They want to have it because you’re a trusted partner and we’re working through this together and they just want to talk about it. They’re like, well yeah, I’m going to need your help. We go to this level. Yeah, they’re hiding something. There’s something going on.

28:38
Tom Stanfill
There’s hiding something and they don’t and I will tell you when I have honest conversations, I’ll tell you this happened recently. I had an honest conversation with somebody and when I say honest, I mean I’m just willing to say we’re just going to talk about the reality. Like this is the way it works. This. Is how I realized it’s, because I thought the company was much smaller than they actually were.

29:04
Tab Norris
Oh, God.

29:05
Tom Stanfill
And so it wasn’t something I was even interested in pursuing. And so I just said, look, let me just tell you how it works. Let me just tell you this is the way it works. This is how people are going to whether you use us and I just was completely candid. If you don’t want to do that, then I don’t want to be involved and blah, blah. And we just had this really honest well, it turns out that they were actually very qualified, but it went really well because I wasn’t worried about anything. I was just having a real and this person really wanted to solve the problem. They really appreciated that. So it’s just a reinforcement that if you’re having a really honest conversation not a selfish conversation, but an honest conversation, and you’re asking tough questions and you’re trying to help them solve a problem, like, hey, I’m really working.

29:47
Tom Stanfill
With another contractor, but I want to see if you have the right pricing so I can work with them and you can tell they’re faking it. And your only option is if you have a really honest conversation, you could blow it up and they might start talking to you and they say, well, actually, we’re already talking to this person, so I don’t want to do that. I’m like, great, well then and now you can address that. So I think that’s one I think the other thing, finding somebody who’s candid tells you it’s real, so that helps address that. I think the other thing that I try to remember is I need to have a why for the questions I ask.

30:28
Tab Norris
Okay, right.

30:29
Tom Stanfill
Why is it in their best interest to answer the questions? I need to be able to communicate? The reason I’m asking is and if I can give them a reason, then that gives me confidence to ask the tough question.

30:42
Tab Norris
Yeah, that’s what I like about that reason. It makes it easier for them to give you the good answer. But I like it because it makes me comfortable asking because that’s what I would be saying. I’d be going, well, why? It’s in my best interest to answer that. When you say that, when you proactively bring that up, it’s a softener right. It creates an environment where they feel comfortable.

31:04
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I totally agree.

31:05
Tab Norris
All right.

31:06
Tom Stanfill
Kind of reaches to our number three.

31:07
Tab Norris
Yeah, it does. I was going to say perfect transition. So let’s just recap. So one was have a buying understand not only have your selling process, your sales process, but also understand the buyer’s journey or their process for buying. Make sure we connect and bring value there. Number two is make sure you’re talking to the right person. Right. That’s kind of make sure at the right level.

31:33
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Who’s involved? Who else is involved? Who’s driving this, who’s determining what’s going to happen? I mean, I don’t want to review all there’s a lot of different ways that people talk about the decision making team or the political structure, but who’s the decision maker? Who are the influencers, who’s the evaluator and the person that you’re talking to? Right. You treat them like the decision maker because ultimately but you still want to know where are they in that process?

32:04
Tab Norris
To kind of keep connecting to our big picture here, the reason we can stall is because we’re not connected to the buyer’s process. The reason we can stall is we’re not at the right level, and we haven’t figured that out. We don’t understand who is driving this. Okay. Which leads us to number three, which.

32:21
Tom Stanfill
By the way, let’s just make sure we connect it out. If somebody else starts talking to the right person and you’re not, we’re out now.

32:29
Tab Norris
That’s why it’s disappeared and all find.

32:31
Tom Stanfill
Out later you’re connected at the wrong level. If somebody else is connected at the right level, then you don’t have influence even if you have the right solution. I mean, I guarantee if we could see everybody that’s listening this call, and we said, raise your hand if you’ve lost a deal because you were connected to the wrong level. Everybody raises their hand.

32:53
Tab Norris
Yeah. No. If you’re not, you’re lying because we’ve all been there.

32:58
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we’ve definitely all been there. It kind of ties to number three, which is and we probably don’t need to spend a ton of time on this because we probably covered most of it, but we got to ask the tough questions.

33:11
Tab Norris
Yeah.

33:12
Tom Stanfill
And we just are afraid to kill the deal. I think people that are good at keeping deals moving is they’re willing to kill the deal.

33:23
Tab Norris
Right.

33:24
Tom Stanfill
They’re willing to say, okay, so why are you doing this? We already use so and so, but we’re reaching out. Why just kill it, just make it go away centered way. Yeah.

33:41
Tab Norris
It’s like I just had that the other day. I’m like, why in the world are you going to look for an outsourced solution for this? You have something in place, you’re doing this, you’re doing that. People seem to like it, and you want to bring us in, but what does that look like? Why would you do that? And they’re like, going, well, it’s a really good question. A lot of people are saying that. And I’m like, okay, well, so tell me because I’m okay if you just stick with what you got going on. Well, I think we may not like that other thing as much as we kind of think we like see, all of a sudden you start getting real insight, and I think it builds tons of credibility to your point.

34:18
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Because you don’t want to waste time or it’s a legitimate question. If they don’t want to tell you why they’re doing something, I don’t really have the time. So it’s like if somebody walked into the orthopedic surgeon and says, why are you here? I don’t really want to tell you.

34:37
Tab Norris
Right.

34:39
Tom Stanfill
I would like to just hear about your practice. Yeah, no, here’s the cool thing about it. If you are so good that you can’t waste time on bogus conversation, they want to work with you, the busier you are, and the more you’re choosing who you work with and how you’re spending your time, makes you more attractive. And they want to work with you. And again, if they don’t want to tell you, then you don’t want to work with them. Just test that out, and you’ll see. So just ask the tough question. Again, you want to position the question is, here’s why I’m asking. And the reason I’m asking is and you want to give them an other centered reason. The reason I’m asking what your budget is because I don’t want to propose something that doesn’t align with what you’re doing. And if we can’t bid within your budget, you and I are both wasting time.

35:28
Tom Stanfill
Let’s just have that conversation. Well, I don’t really want to tell you. Fine. Okay, so you don’t want to tell me your budget, that’s fine. So I’ll give you a range. There’s ways around that. Or you can say, I’m getting the sense that and you move on.

35:45
Tab Norris
Yeah.

35:47
Tom Stanfill
So that’s asking any other hard question. Is there any hard questions that you find?

35:54
Tab Norris
I think the one I shared is the big one. I do. Why would you do that? I use that all the time. It just seems like you’re in a pretty good spot. I just feel like that works pretty well. It just bubbles a lot of things up. And I don’t think that’s just for our industry. I think that can work in a lot of industries.

36:13
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I think that’s probably asking why they’re doing it. I think why they’re doing it, budget. Who else is involved? Those seem to be the tough question that we oh, competition.

36:32
Tab Norris
Yeah.

36:34
Tom Stanfill
I think people yeah, that’s a tough.

36:38
Tab Norris
Question, but I’ll play that along with what I already said. That’s the one that you’ll play. I know you’re already working with this organization or you’re working with this competitor or whatever, and based on what you told me, you feel good about that. Why would you move forward? Because that does kind of tap into.

36:58
Tom Stanfill
Competition, if you know but if you don’t know if I’m meeting with somebody and they’re talking to other people, like a question recently, so how’d that meeting go?

37:13
Tab Norris
Right.

37:13
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. What happened? Because she goes, it feels like were dancing.

37:21
Tab Norris
Right.

37:22
Tom Stanfill
Okay, so now we know. So you really liked what they offer.

37:25
Tab Norris
Yeah.

37:26
Tom Stanfill
Yes. Let’s talk about that. Okay, so now we’ve got it on the table. You’re still talking to me, but you.

37:32
Tab Norris
Really like you really like that other competitor.

37:35
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Okay, well, now that’s the and I’m happy because I know reality. I can deal with reality, I can’t deal with dark. I can’t see in the darkness.

37:45
Tab Norris
Yes, it’s good.

37:47
Tom Stanfill
Beautiful. So you just want me to go to number four tab?

37:51
Tab Norris
Let’s go to number four.

37:52
Tom Stanfill
You want me to keep going, see.

37:55
Tab Norris
If listeners can’t see us. But you look like you were going to four.

37:58
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, well, I’m making this stuff up so I had to thinking about number four.

38:03
Tab Norris
You do have five, by the way, just to remind we’re on number four.

38:07
Tom Stanfill
I was looking for you to go number four. Number four.

38:10
Tab Norris
Did I say three or did I say five? I can’t remember.

38:13
Tom Stanfill
This one’s easy. We don’t have to spend a lot of time on this one. But if you can’t send a meeting invite, you don’t have a commitment. Every meeting should end with a commitment. I make this mistake still because it went so well and I flew out and I met with the decision making team and we’re all hugging and the presentation went well and it’s great. And of course we’re going to talk again, but I left the meeting without a clear calendar invite for the next step and those can go dark.

38:47
Tab Norris
Yes, that is an easy one. And I always say this, even in training, hey, we’re not going to spend a lot of time on this, but if you do this poorly, it will kill you. I mean, it’s just like your effectiveness is just not going to be nearly as strong and it’s not hard to do, but it’s critical.

39:05
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, you should just end, just do it. And here’s what people think and I do it the same. It’s like we’re all in this and we’ll call it room right now and we’re all thinking about this thing, but as soon as they leave the room, they’re going to be flooded by all kinds of competing priorities. As soon as I leave the kitchen, and I’m talking about the kitchen, which that’s been on our initiative list, redoing the kitchen since last July.

39:36
Tab Norris
Right.

39:37
Tom Stanfill
I still haven’t done it because I move into another room metaphorically and I got other things I’m working on. So everybody is overwhelmed with competing priorities. So people, if you can get them moving and keep committed, then they’ll stay on that track.

39:53
Tab Norris
That’s it. And just all you need to tell yourself is remind yourself it’s other centered to do this. Everybody needs it. You need help, they need it. Everybody needs it. They’ll be very appreciative that you did it and it builds credibility. They love it. They’re looking for that trusted partner and.

40:08
Tom Stanfill
It’S okay for them to say we’re not moving forward.

40:10
Tab Norris
Yeah, which is fine, we’re not moving forward.

40:12
Tom Stanfill
So great. We have a commitment not to work together.

40:14
Tab Norris
I just had that happen last week. I said, well, hey, we had this credible, clearly the next step is and I said, so can we just go ahead and book for next week. Just go ahead and do whatever my next step was. And he goes, no, hey, wait, you’re not playing along.

40:32
Tom Stanfill
He’s like, playing along.

40:34
Tab Norris
No, that’s not it. It’s going to be discovery meeting too, with the whole committee. That’s what we need to do. I said, oh, can we book that now? He goes, no, you shoot me some availability for next week. I will book it on the calendars for two. It accomplished the same thing. See, he didn’t give me all the right answers, but we still ended with a commitment to a next you can’t.

41:03
Tom Stanfill
Always send a meeting invite. But that is the goal is if we can nail down something and you may can’t always do it and you don’t want to be, oh, we got to do it. There’s a reason. There’s a reason, but where are we? And that bubbles it up. So that led to another conversation.

41:21
Tab Norris
Exactly. And it led to a commitment to the next step. But when you don’t do it, that’s when you get in trouble.

41:25
Tom Stanfill
Beautiful.

41:26
Tab Norris
All right, so bring it home with five.

41:28
Tom Stanfill
We can bring it home. And I think this might be the most controversial is know when to say no.

41:35
Tab Norris
Yes.

41:37
Tom Stanfill
Deals stall because we didn’t say no, we kind of followed this journey that we don’t really even want to be on and we don’t know what to say no. So I would just recommend that everybody define what your requirements are for partnering with a prospect or a customer in.

42:04
Tab Norris
This journey to help them make the right decision. They need to do these steps in the process or they’re not going to make the right decision.

42:11
Tom Stanfill
Because it’s a partnership. Right. So it can’t be a lose win or a lose. If it’s a lose win or a lose, I wouldn’t do it, right? Yeah. We’d like you to come out and do this for us. So we’re going to spend all this time educating you. What’s your commitment? No commitment. We’re not going to have the people there that are going to make the decision and we just like more education. I don’t think that’s I’m not going to do that. Well, we like you to participate in RFP. We want you to spend a couple of days or three days writing and editing and blah, blah. Why would you do that? What requirements do you have for you to do the work or partner with a company? And if you define that, then it becomes easy for you to say no. And again, you need to say no as to why it’s in their best interest to say no.

43:03
Tab Norris
Right.

43:04
Tom Stanfill
Like, for example, somebody we had a situation several years ago where they were like, we want you to respond to this RFP. It’s a large opportunity, it’s exciting. Big international company. And they said, we want you to respond to this RFP. I said, So what happens after the RFP, because I have requirements, I will respond to an RFP if it’s followed by a meeting with the finalists. And of course they’re looking for what we offer and there’s other requirements. And they said, well, we’re just going to make our decision off an RFP. I’m like, I’m out.

43:35
Tab Norris
Right? But you’re not going to pursue that because, you know, the ODS are so slim, it’s not the right buying process anyway. They’re going to make a bad decision.

43:45
Tom Stanfill
And that was what I said. You cannot evaluate I said this very clearly. I said, 50% of the success of this project is going to be based on who you partner with. So you need to know who you partner with, whether you partner with us or somebody else. You need to meet the team. I said, so if you don’t ever meet the team, I get you can’t meet ten potential partners, but you need to meet at least the final two or the final three, and your RFP can help you figure that out if you include these things in the RFP. But you need to meet with a finalist. And then she said, OK, that’s a great change. But if she would have said, we’re not doing that, which, by the way.

44:23
Tab Norris
I’ve had, that.

44:27
Tom Stanfill
Great, I hear you.

44:28
Tab Norris
But yeah, they’re not doing that. And I’ve made that mistake too. You’ve probably been there. Well, I have.

44:35
Tom Stanfill
Where I’ve gone, I’m not for RFP because I got to write them.

44:38
Tab Norris
That’s true. Well, this wasn’t an RFP, this was a presentation. But still same.

44:43
Tom Stanfill
Definitely.

44:44
Tab Norris
I wouldn’t do an RFP. I’m like you, I’m so scared. I mean, I’m not going to spend the time to do that, but presentation feels a little bit like well, but it never pays.

44:53
Tom Stanfill
Just I’ve made that mistake, like traveling to do a quote unquote demo, that kind of thing. Travel to a city. I remember. Will you come share with what you do? This was years and years ago and I was sick. I’ve never been this miserable delivering a training program, like a mini workshop thing, and I was so sick. The worst sore throat. This is before COVID I mean, now people would have never even allowed me in, but I could barely talk and I’m like, the decision makers weren’t there. It was like free training for somebody. I will never do that again. But yeah, so the takeaway is you need to have requirements for when you’re going to spend your precious time, because that’s the greatest resource you have is your time and you can’t manufacture it. And so how are you going to spend your time?

45:52
Tom Stanfill
And how you spend your time usually will determine whether you’re successful and so what’s required for you to be involved so that it is a win. You can potentially win and they will win. And if they’re going to lose, you need to tell them why it’s in their best interest for them not to do it. If they’re going to win and you’re going to lose, you just politely say, I would love to do that, but I can’t.

46:15
Tab Norris
Right? Yeah.

46:19
Tom Stanfill
Because if people are willing to say I want you to lose, yeah. I want you to lose and I want to win. I’m like and I just like to repeat it. So what you want me to do is the person that’s going to make the decision is not going to be there and you want me to spend two days doing this, but you’re not going to have so and so. Yeah, that’s what we’re going to do.

46:42
Tab Norris
Right.

46:43
Tom Stanfill
You know what?

46:45
Tab Norris
Miss out on that.

46:47
Tom Stanfill
I’d love to help.

46:50
Tab Norris
All right. So the big five. Big five can do about kind of.

46:56
Tom Stanfill
To improve what we can control.

46:59
Tab Norris
What we can control that can help impact keeping the deals from going, keeping them moving forward.

47:08
Tom Stanfill
Know your customers decision making process and develop events for each one. Know who ask the tough questions. Always get a commitment. Or, you know, you can’t get a commitment and that will bubble up. Create this fork in the road, where are we going? And know when to say no. Say no. I love it when it doesn’t meet your requirements for partnership because that word is important. Partner. It’s a partnership.

47:38
Tab Norris
I love it.

47:39
Tom Stanfill
Beautiful.

47:39
Tab Norris
Good takeaway.

47:40
Tom Stanfill
It was good for me to be reminded of these.

47:43
Tab Norris
That’s what I say. As long as I keep writing notes and getting reminded and encouraged to better at my craft, then I hope it helps others. So this was great.

47:52
Tom Stanfill
I want to highlight one thing that you said when we talked about the who. I thought that was good clarity. If you think about where it came from and where it’s going, that’s going to help you define that’s, going to tell you the process, who’s involved. And that is just the easiest way. Where did it come from and where is it going? Dream with me a little bit. I think if that’s one thing everybody can add to their conversation, that will add a lot of value and help you keep the deals from stalling. All right, well, beautiful. Thanks for joining my friends and as always, we love feedback. It helps us get better. It tells us what to talk about and it helps other people find us. So thanks for joining us for another episode of Sales with Aslan.