Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from Ep. 179 – Solutions to Buyer Resistance – Part 1

In this episode, Tom and Tab discuss how to navigate buyer resistance in this age of information and technology overload, giving sellers some strategies and techniques to do so. 

Listen to the conversation here:

Or check out the full transcript:

00:13
Tom Stanfill
Welcome back to another episode of Sales with Aslan. Mr. Norris, how are you doing today? And good to our vast listening audience. I want to welcome them back to another episode. And thanks for joining us. I mean, Tab, there’s so many things you can do with your time.

00:28
Tab Norris
There really are. I mean, you could paint, you can sculpt, landscaping…

00:33
Tom Stanfill
A lot of people do that.

00:34
Tab Norris
Right now, I don’t do pottery, but how about a podcast?

00:38
Tom Stanfill
Pottery. Pottery is always kind of your go to.

00:40
Tab Norris
It is. And I love and you may not know this about me, but I used to love my mom literally did pottery as a kid.

00:48
Tom Stanfill
So this is why you always go to pottery. It is.

00:51
Tab Norris
I have a past life.

00:53
Tom Stanfill
Pottery. You had a lovely mother.

00:56
Tab Norris
Little wheel, that wheel that spins real fast, and you throw the clay on there. It was really cool.

01:01
Tom Stanfill
Well, of course, that reminds me of Ghost, which is that just got romantic. Ghost.

01:06
Tab Norris
Oh, gosh, that’s bad. Well, it’s good to be back with you, my friend.

01:12
Tom Stanfill
Good to see you, my brother.

01:14
Tab Norris
Yes.

01:14
Tom Stanfill
So we got a kind of an interesting topic today because we just sort of decided to talk about all the noise in the market.

01:27
Tab Norris
Yes, there’s so much stuff going on, isn’t there? In shifts. And we’re seeing lots of technology coming into play.

01:42
Tom Stanfill
Baby AI. Now my wife is divorcing me, and she’s hiring an AI thing. I don’t know how it works, but it’s going to replace me completely.

01:54
Tab Norris
No, it’s all over the place.

01:57
Tom Stanfill
I guess that’d be a great topic.

02:00
Tab Norris
Robot. She wants a robot to take over. Because, Tom, you’re always on the cutting edge. That’s what you are. You’re always right out there on the forefront. So I’ve been hearing noise, but you’ve been digging into it a little bit more. So tell me what you’re seeing.

02:18
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I think as I process all the information I’m getting, that’s constantly hitting our inbox. I think there’s so much noise about all the enablement tools. Like I got the other day, digital sales Room or Digital. I mean, there’s just all these new labels. How is AI going to affect things? What’s sales enablement mean? What are the latest tool? Conversational intelligence. On top of that, you’re already getting 100 emails a second coming in your inbox with just all the possible opportunities or social media. What’s happening in the market? Banks are going to I mean, it’s just so much going on that I think people are, I think, wanting an easy solution. And also when you look at what sales organizations are happening, I think it’s more difficult for sellers to hit their number. It’s more difficult for people to get meetings. A turnover is higher, so people are there for a shorter period of time.

03:13
Tom Stanfill
We’re trying to get them up to speed quicker. The ROI that a business has to produce in a certain period of time puts tremendous pressure on everybody, which drives all the volume of activity. I think everybody’s just jumping, I think bouncing around to the latest, hottest thing that’ll make it all go away and make it easy.

03:35
Tab Norris
Yeah. So everybody’s just trying to make it easy, trying to streamline things.

03:39
Tom Stanfill
I’ll sell you this tool, and it’ll all go away.

03:41
Tab Norris
Yeah.

03:41
Tom Stanfill
Here’s a pill. Take this pill. There’s a sales solution pill, and you take it, and your salesforce will be fixed with this new thing.

03:49
Tab Norris
Yeah, that’s good. I just got off I had a conversation with one of my customers just the other day, and same thing. Well, gosh. Do you have some tool? Do you have some tool? I need a tool to make to hold my national sales people salespeople accountable, to go after the right you know, I’m like going, I don’t think there’s a tool. I mean, I mean, you can use tools, but, I mean, you know, incent them the right way and, you know, spend time with them and coach them up. That human element.

04:23
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. It’s funny, because thinking about this weekend is US. Open Father’s Day weekend.

04:28
Tab Norris
US.

04:28
Tom Stanfill
Open until golf comes to mind, and it’s like saying, hey, we got this AI tool that’s going to help Rory McElroy win the US. Open, right? No.

04:42
Tab Norris
He still got to go out and play.

04:45
Tom Stanfill
Now, he might have an AI tool that will help him realize which shots he needs to work on and which shots he struggles, and it can help him coach better, coach himself better. He can figure out what he’s doing with the golf ball. There are tools that will give him information, help him synthesize and practice. Like he still has to practice smarter. Those tools are helpful, but he still got to hit the golf ball.

05:11
Tab Norris
Yeah. And that didn’t go away. Same thing with sales and sales leadership. These are all things that supplement.

05:18
Tom Stanfill
But I do think what’s different about golf and what we’re facing in the sales organization, that actually the market has changed.

05:27
Tab Norris
Yeah.

05:28
Tom Stanfill
Like this golf course that they’re playing. Yeah. They might make it a little longer, but then the equipment gets a little bit better, so it kind of all evens out. But golf is golf. But that’s not true in sales customers. If you look at your inbox right now or just how it feels to be I mean, I got a text today from somebody I haven’t talked to in 20 years trying to sell me something, and it’s not that person. They’ve hijacked that person’s email.

05:57
Tab Norris
Text.

05:58
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I know. They’re not I don’t even mean this guy is a high school. He’s a friend of one of my kids. Last time I saw him, he was in high school. I’m getting an email from this guy trying to sell me some phone thing. We’re just overwhelmed. I don’t know how these people got my text number. I’m constantly getting emails from people that say that they’re my name and it’s not or it’s just all the things that we’re getting makes us just overwhelmed with how to break through the noise. And that’s what I’m saying is the market has changed for itself.

06:37
Tab Norris
Let me ask you this question, Tom. I get it. I think everybody, we all see this, the writings on the wall, we’re all feeling it. It’s new frontier. What are some of the positives and the areas of concern that you see as we move in this direction? Love to have your insight.

06:56
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I think that’s a really good place to start. Positives. Here’s the good news. There is I’m going to make up a number, but I believe it’s somewhere around here.

07:06
Tab Norris
Really strong statement, but I believe this.

07:09
Tom Stanfill
To be true within an error ratio of plus or -2%. Okay, that’s good. Okay. I think 98% of the sellers are going to keep doing the same thing. They’re going to keep doing the same thing, and they’re going to have a smaller, smaller, smaller. The population of customers and prospects who are going to respond to the same traditional approach is going to keep getting smaller. And they have to work harder and harder, which is why you keep seeing because of the automation and because it’s harder to get meetings. That’s why we’re seeing more volume of information. There’s more channels. More information has to go out there because I’ve got to put more messages. More messages are getting fewer responses. So what we do is we increase the message, and that’s what everybody’s going to do. They’re all going to keep selling the same way, they’re going to keep prospecting the same way, and it’s going to continue to be less and less successful.

07:59
Tom Stanfill
So what they do is they got to do more and more. So here’s the good news for the person that says, you know what? I’m going to do it differently. They’re going to shine, and they’re going to kill it and be incredibly successful. But it does require a new approach. It requires a new mindset, a new skill set, new process. But if they do that, they’ll be different than everybody. Remember the rep we interviewed and I’m blanking. We interviewed a rep that we worked with. Hold on, I’ve got him tab. I can’t remember his name. You trained him.

08:41
Tab Norris
Oh, yeah. I don’t remember who you’re talking about. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. Great rep.

08:49
Tom Stanfill
He outsold the next number two rep. He outsold him by 200% because he understood how to apply to what we tyler. Tyler. Thank you.

09:04
Tab Norris
Yes.

09:05
Tom Stanfill
You can tell we don’t edit our podcast. This is live. Tyler, thanks. Sorry about that, Tyler, but yeah, so he understands a different way to sell because of that, people that know that can be successful, and I think there’s a great opportunity for that. I think that’s the positive.

09:26
Tab Norris
Yeah, no, I think that’s really good. And the more the noise, the more you’re different than all the noise that everybody else is doing. Maybe they’re just trying to let technology kind of take care of it. So it creates noise and it’s not unique. It can be less unique. I like that.

09:45
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. They either do a technology thing or they look to the company and say, give me more leads. And I need more leads because I can’t close the ones that I have, so I need more. And by the way, the reason I can’t close the ones I have is because it’s your fault, it’s product fault, it’s market fault. And so I need more and more. And so then that turnover happens because what they say is, well, I’ll just go look somewhere else. I’ll go find some other place that has the magic pill so I can just sit here. Leads are going to come in and I’m going to be able to convert those because I’ve got the great product solution. Whatever. There’s only a few of those opportunities.

10:20
Tab Norris
Yeah.

10:22
Tom Stanfill
And the reality is, if you’re depending on the company for leads and for the best product in the market, they don’t really need you.

10:30
Tab Norris
Right.

10:31
Tom Stanfill
You become less valuable. Yeah. So the people that really are making I know sellers that are making seven figures in sales because they understand a different way to sell and they’re so intertwined with the customer’s business and they’re so knowledgeable that it doesn’t matter who they’re representing, they’re buying them. And so I think that’s the opportunity.

10:54
Tab Norris
So that’s the positive side. What about the concern area of concern or anything along those lines?

11:01
Tom Stanfill
Well, I think the area I would say of concern is I do think there’s going to, as we try to navigate the AI world, I think we’ve got to get smarter about what we offer. Meaning what is the human element? What do I, as a human being talking to other human beings? What value can I bring to the table? Which means I probably have to flex, I’ve got to probably stop doing certain things and start doing new things. And I think that’s evolving and I think that’s real.

11:34
Tab Norris
Okay. So the concern is if you just keep doing things exactly the way you’ve been doing them, you’re going to get left behind. Or you could versus there’s lots of opportunity, but you got to be willing to pivot.

11:49
Tom Stanfill
You got to be willing because let’s say you’re the best at what you do in an industry that’s going away.

11:54
Tab Norris
Yeah.

11:55
Tom Stanfill
It’s not you, it’s the industry. I mean, we’ve worked with companies, we’ve been doing this for 28 years. We’ve worked with companies that no longer in existence, not because they weren’t excellent at what they did, because their industry went away.

12:06
Tab Norris
Right.

12:10
Tom Stanfill
And so that happens. And I do think there is some the market is going to be evolving and changing and I think for some of us, we have to, I think that’s probably a downside, but I think for most people, it’s really going to be about an evolution of new skills. New skills, becoming more knowledgeable about what value you offer and only you can offer.

12:35
Tab Norris
Yeah, that’s good. Well, it begs the question, Tom, as a salesperson, as a sales leader.

12:46
Tom Stanfill
What.

12:46
Tab Norris
Should I be doing about it specifically? Do you have any thoughts, any advice that you’d give?

12:52
Tom Stanfill
Well, I want to double click back on what we talked about as a traditional approach and then that’s not going to work. And that’s the good news. Bad news. The good news is if you change your approach, you’re going to be successful and you’re going to have a competitive advantage. So I think that’s probably a place to start is to say, let’s talk about what the traditional approach is. So the traditional approach is the idea that if I have the best argument, right, I’ve got the best value prop, it’s a use case, which it’s important, like, I’m going to communicate the value of my solution, I’m going to have the best value problem, I’m going to win. That’s the traditional approach. It’s like, I’m going to court, I’m going to make my argument. The best argument is going to win. The problem is no one’s in court.

13:38
Tab Norris
Talking to an empty room.

13:40
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And the problem is that it’s not logical, it’s emotional. It’s like a lot of the resistance that sellers are finding, sellers are facing buyer resistance. That is the biggest problem I think we have in sales is buyer resistance is I don’t want to talk to a salesperson. I don’t care what you have to say because I know what you’re going to offer. You’re going to be sticky, you’re going to email me 50 times and by the way, I know what your emails are going to say. Your email is going to say this and it’s going to say I want to put this top of your inbox and it’s going to say this again. And I’m going to put this top of your inbox and it’s going to say the same thing over and over again. And then it’s going to have that breakup email that’s going to say, well, this is my last email.

14:23
Tom Stanfill
Are you sure?

14:24
Tab Norris
And now they got little videos in there. Is this going to be you? And it’s got it from the office or something. And I’m like, really? That’s where we’re heading here.

14:34
Tom Stanfill
And some of this is being generated by marketing, right, with the sales reps name on it, which is fine, right, let marketing do their thing. But that traditional approach of coming up with a powerful value prop, that’s about you going out in the market or when you get in the meeting, finding out how to sell your solution and spending time throwing a lot of things on the wall, which people continually say, this is how they sell. They go in, they ask a couple of questions and they throw a lot of stuff at the prospect and customer and then that doesn’t really the customer says yes or no or goes away or ghost. That’s kind of the traditional approach. Or if you’re an account manager, you manage the relationship and you just check in with people and you say how things are going and they’re looking to automate you out of the process, literally.

15:31
Tom Stanfill
That’s another thing that’s happening. The bad news is that the move in the market is to get purchasing and procurement to automate that so that they get the best product at the lowest price and they can remove the emotional side of sales. The emotional side of buying and just process it and take the whole because the rep doesn’t offer value and they don’t want the relationships built. And so those are some of the changes that are happening. And that’s sort of the traditional approach.

16:05
Tab Norris
You know, it’s Tom, it’s funny. Carvana, that’s what carvana is exactly. They completely removed CarMax moved in that direction. But you still talk to a salesperson. But I mean, carvana, you get on your phone and you pick your car and it’s a negotiated price and you go click, I’ll take it. And they bring it to your house. They just bypass salespeople.

16:28
Tom Stanfill
They trying to back that. Look at the healthcare industry. What Pharma knows, and this can be a really good thing, pharma knows that if the right person is in a territory, people will buy the product, right? And that could be a good thing because the territory should buy it. In other words, they have the best product, but the physicians or the healthcare provider doesn’t know about it. And so they’re educating the market and that’s good. But then you take a different person out of that market, they leave and another person comes to market and all of a sudden prescriptions go way down. So what’s true? That can be a good thing or a bad thing. And I totally support what Pharma is doing and their need to be in the office and educate and all that stuff. But the belief is if we can remove all of that emotional side and just figure out what’s the best again, I’m not supporting this is what should happen.

17:22
Tom Stanfill
I’m saying it is happening. It is a buyer group and say we’re going to make all the decisions for all the healthcare systems and then we just go through us, we’ll remove the rep influencing the people inside the organization, we’ll make the decision. So we’ve got to figure out how to offer more value and change the way people think about the sales position salesperson and have more influence. And what we’re doing, I shouldn’t say across the board, but most of what we’re doing doesn’t work.

17:52
Tab Norris
So it’s really how do we as salespeople embrace technology and tools and things and connect it to the human element in order to bring the ultimate value.

18:04
Tom Stanfill
Exactly. And it starts with understanding, as we always say at Aslan, when a customer is emotionally closed, either every time we go in to have a conversation, they’re either open or they’re closed. They’re emotionally open or they’re emotionally closed. People are either like, I’m open to what you have to say or I’m not. And when someone’s emotionally closed, which a lot of these decision makers are now emotionally closed, the more we try to persuade them, the more closed they become. Right. So if I sell, I lose. The problem is if I don’t sell, I lose.

18:36
Tab Norris
Right.

18:36
Tom Stanfill
This is why people are resistant to selling because they know what’s going to happen. They’re going to get shut down because they’re like, you’re selling me. Because what they’re typically closed to is a sales call. And so the reps that are successful now, whether they’re selling to buying groups, selling to physicians, selling to corporate leaders, selling to consumers, are learning a new way to have that conversation and be able to say things like, it might make sense to buy another product. It might make sense to stay right where you’re doing. I understand the reason that you’re going to this process for buying, but because if you know how to approach that conversation, then you have a seat at the table and as long as you have a seat at the table and you’re adding value, you’ve got a place and you will be successful. And then you also will go.

19:34
Tom Stanfill
In this case, this hospital system has decided that what’s best for them. And I was part of that conversation and they all told me the same and I met with everybody and they wanted to meet with me because they wanted my insight. And they landed on this vaccine being this is what’s best for that hospital. And so for whatever reason we’re out. That frees me up. I know I’ve had the most influence I can have. I’m having the meetings I need to have that frees me up to go look for other opportunities where I am going to be the chosen provider.

20:05
Tab Norris
Right. That’s good. And I know we’ve talked about this a ton on lots of podcasts, but all this noise, all this stuff and just to drive that point home, this receptivity or this connection, this being open is getting harder and harder, just continues to get tougher and tougher. It’s always been there. But to your point, it’s just all the noise makes it even tougher.

20:31
Tom Stanfill
Well, I really think what? It’s so hard for me to talk about this because it seems so like I look at this statement I’m about to make and I’m like, whatever. It’s like you’re talking to somebody about retirement and you say you need to save money. Wow. That’s your breakthrough insight. But the solution to this problem really starts with we have to decide who’s the priority. I really don’t believe that most sellers think the customer is the priority. Now, when I say think the customer’s priority, I should say that differently. I think they do believe that the customer should be the priority. Right. I just don’t think they really actually are.

21:19
Tab Norris
Right. No, I agree with you 100%. I mean, I think they say it even oh, I know they’re the priority, but everything you don’t believe it because every action that you have is counterintuitive to that. Or if you believe it, you don’t think that you can act that way because there’s sales and that will hurt me and I won’t make my money I need to make.

21:42
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, it’s kind of like, yeah, that’s really what’s priority I’ve got to make the money I need to make.

21:47
Tab Norris
Right. That’s really the priority.

21:49
Tom Stanfill
And I got this. And by the way, the corporation I’m working for, small or large, puts a number on my head. If I’m in sales, I’m 100% commission. Whether they give me a salary or not, I’m 100% commission. I get paid based on what I sell. And so that becomes my dominating agenda. And my first advice I would give is I’m not asking people to move away from that agenda. You and I both have goals, financial goals. We’re not going to move away from that. What I try to do is to set that aside and I make a decision that if I serve my customers well, I will get my money.

22:28
Tab Norris
Yeah, that took me forever to figure out, but when I finally figured it out, it was the most freeing thing that ever happened in my life. I’m actually making a lot more money, I’m having more fun. I’m out finding people that have pain, finding people that need some kind of solution, and I just help them out. And when I did that, I made a lot of money versus when, like, well, today I will go forth and I will you know, I mean, it was just so bad.

22:57
Tom Stanfill
It’s just lets so let’s go back to this buying group thing. Like, I remember I wrote about this in the book. A major pharmaceutical leader was meeting with the Mayo Clinic and they started the meeting, and you could tell it was sort of an adversarial thing because we’ve already described where the healthcare world is trying to go quit working with reps and try to get the decide that we don’t need to go it again. But we know where they’re trying to organizationally move away from how it’s working now. And this rep starts the conversation off the leader. It’s actually a leader started the conversation off because I don’t really know if you need our vaccine.

23:38
Tab Norris
Right.

23:39
Tom Stanfill
What we need to work together on is get more people vaccine, because that’s the problem. People aren’t getting vaccine. Vaccines, vaccinated. Yeah, I want to work with you on how do we get more people to get vaccinated. And it’s whether you need us or you don’t need us. Let’s work together on that and see where this goes. And so that made that incredibly productive relationship, and you have to mean that. So at the end of the day, if you realize by working in the Mayo Clinic, they don’t need your vaccine, but you’re going to come to that conclusion before they do.

24:10
Tab Norris
Right.

24:10
Tom Stanfill
And by the way, that will lead when that person leaves the Mayo Clinic and goes somewhere else, they’re going to bring you with them, and that relationship is going to be built, and you’re going to have better conversations. So it does really start with it starts with and if you’re a leader listening to this, if you can get your organization, if you can turn the organizational chart upside down, the pyramid upside down, and you put the customer at the top, you put the leadership at the bottom, and you teach your reps to serve their customers. And that’s what everything is about, is how do we teach our people to serve their customer? If you’re a rep, you wake up every morning and think, who needs my help? Who can I serve? Who has a problem I need to solve? And every conversation is really just an invitation to have that conversation.

25:06
Tom Stanfill
Every meeting is an invitation, or prospecting call is an invitation to talk about how can I solve their problem? And that leads to purpose. Now, all of a sudden, I’ve got a purpose behind what I’m doing, and my organization has a purpose, and my team has got a purpose. And we’re all aligned around this purpose versus we got to sell more. How are we doing? I need more money. You need more money, let’s get more money. Which, fine, money is great, but it’s not my purpose.

25:34
Tab Norris
So it’s a mindset. So the first thing we’re focusing on from a solution standpoint is having a different mindset.

25:43
Tom Stanfill
It starts with, who’s this about? Who’s this? I guess you could say that.

25:48
Tab Norris
Different mindset.

25:49
Tom Stanfill
Who is this about? The other thing too, it changes who you pursue or how you think about who you pursue, and it changes your process. You’re kind of wandering around going, Who, I think about that. I’ve got meetings later on today. I can walk into that meeting and go, I wonder how I can help them. Can I help them?

26:17
Tab Norris
Right.

26:18
Tom Stanfill
And that’s going to be this conversation, and I’m going to be thinking about how I can and if I can’t. But it’s just because there’s plenty of.

26:26
Tab Norris
People out there we can help. Exactly. Just keep looking for them, and you find them and you have win some, you lose some. I mean, it’s so true. It really is. To your point, it’s not that complicated, but it’s hard to pull off, I think, for a lot of salespeople, some people have a lot of baggage. They’ve been doing it one way for a long time, and they’re trying to break free. It may take a little time, I would think.

26:48
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I think the first step really is an awareness. Just step back and say and it’s just funny. I just had a conversation with somebody, a friend of mine who doesn’t work with us, but he’s a friend of mine, he’s read the book and I just called him. He said, well, I said, what are you doing? He goes, Right now, I’m resetting my compass. So what he was referring to is the way that we help people think more tangibly about this is you have a compass works. The actual compass works by know the largest magnetic field is the North Pole. Right? Because that’s true. The compass works based on pointing to they knows where north is. So wherever you go, the compass works by based on knowing which way is north. Well, our compass always points to self. Always. We just default to self. So it starts with there.

27:51
Tom Stanfill
Before every meeting, we have to decide, what is this about? What’s my purpose? Who’s the hero of the story? And if I do, all of a sudden my behavior is going to start changing. Now, that doesn’t mean I’m going to know what to do. I can’t do anything else if I don’t start there.

28:11
Tab Norris
Yeah, so that’s the first thing. I love it. It’s really good. Anything else?

28:17
Tom Stanfill
Well, I think that starts to drive. We get more tactical. Now you start to look at your process, which I think is the easiest thing to fix. And it also has there’s a lot of impact to maybe a better way to say it. I think a lot of deals are stalled, get stalled and we get ghosted. A lot of it’s due just to our poor process. When everybody talks about I was on a call the other day and they talk about their nine step process that’s in salesforce or the process, what’s our way of selling? So there’s that. People will say things like that. All of it points to what are the stages of the sales process and what are the steps? I do this, then I do this and I do this, and then they have everything organized around those stages. Here’s what you do at these stages.

29:12
Tom Stanfill
What are the gates to move from one stage to the other. And every time except one, I’ve looked at too many sales processes to count. But every time I look at a sales process, it’s built for the seller.

29:26
Tab Norris
So they have a self centered approach to their process. It’s like, this is the account, this is how we do it. In order to sell the most stuff.

29:35
Tom Stanfill
Here’S what you’re supposed to do as a salesperson prospect. Qualify, propose, demo, whatever. It’s what I do as a seller. Now, that makes sense, right? I do think you need to know what to do as a seller. As a sales organization, you need to know this is what I do. I. Completely embrace that because that’s intuitive. It’s like, what do I need to do? Right. But what it’s missing is the layer above that, which is what process does the customer go through to evaluate their problems and where are they in that process, and then how do they make a decision? And if we start with that, all of our conversations are built around helping them navigate that, and then it also informs us of what we need to do next to help them. So let’s say I’m having a conversation. Hey, you guys evaluating a solution?

30:35
Tom Stanfill
No. Okay, well, do you have this problem? No. Okay, well, we are evaluating solutions. We got an RP coming out. Great. Can I have that RP? Oh, wait. I need to back up and ask you some questions so I know how to answer the questions. That’s how we wait. And we’re very reactive. We’re looking for an opportunity that’s already come out. What? People that are really trusted partners and are successful in this market, they look at the whole process and get involved very early, and they help the customer navigate all those steps. So by the time they get to, I got to choose a solution provider, they’ve been involved with that the entire time because they know how to help the customer navigate that process.

31:22
Tab Norris
So can you tell me what that could look like? That’s really good.

31:26
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. So if you think about any business at any level, they have steps they go to. So the first thing is they have to want something. They have a destination, and they’re sitting around in a room. It depends on who knows who’s in that room. I want to know who’s in that room. Somebody’s landing on a destination. This is where we’re going in the next. And the higher up in the organization, the longer the time frame. The longer the time frame.

31:56
Tab Norris
Yeah.

31:56
Tom Stanfill
Right. Some people are thinking three months, some people like six months, some of you, but they have a destination. Everybody wants something, and so this is where it starts. I want to get somewhere. I have a destination that I want to reach, and I’m typically evaluated based on reaching that destination.

32:18
Tab Norris
Okay.

32:18
Tom Stanfill
And it’s not related to a product.

32:20
Tab Norris
Right.

32:20
Tom Stanfill
It’s related to my division, my job, maybe my entire company. We do that at Aslan. What are we trying to do? We had a leadership meeting in January. I started off that leadership meeting, talking about our destination. Right. And so we all are talking about that’s what we talk about. Now, we might have more granular conversations about, I need this software or I may need this solution or this technology. We may say those things, but it all starts with where our destination? Then we make a bet. How are we going to get to that?

32:57
Tab Norris
Yeah. What do we think of the best path to get there?

33:00
Tom Stanfill
Best path? It’s strategy. We’re going to make a bet we’re going to say we think the best way to get there is hire more people, reorganize our organization, make these investments, do these things right. We come up with a strategy, then we go, well now what do we need? We define what we need, we define our initiatives, we say this is what we think we need to do that. Then we come out of that, we go, what can we do internally? Then the next step is now. We start looking at now based on that as initiatives, we come up with our options. What options do we have now? We go, oh, we need to outsource, we need to look for solutions. Now we go to choose those solutions. And how do we do that? How are we going to choose? And we’ll come up with our process for choosing and then we implement and then we evaluate.

33:50
Tab Norris
That’s the buying process.

33:52
Tom Stanfill
That’s the buying process. And so the smarter you get about where they are in the buying process and how you help them navigate that buying process means that you can provide value at every single stage. And your conversations are about their buying process, not about because here’s what we do now. Okay, so you guys came out of your leadership meeting. Do you all need a new Elearning tool? I’m not really sure. That could be a part of it, may not be a part of it. We’re in the middle of figuring out our strategy and getting more specific about what resources we have and how much may want to. Okay, great. Well when do you think you’ll have all that nailed down? I don’t know, maybe six months. Okay, so I should call and five. Sure, right. And then you go, well, how are you doing with your Elearning?

34:43
Tom Stanfill
How are you doing with your LMS or whatever partner? Well, we decided to move in a different direction. Are you never here for them? Meanwhile, we could have made a bad decision four months ago, but no one was in the room.

35:01
Tab Norris
Yeah, well, one of my favorites, I was with a guy and I was riding with him and I said, so tell me kind of your strategy. We’re going to go out and do a little selling today?

35:12
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

35:17
Tab Norris
So I said, Just watch. He comes in and say, hey Bobby, how’s it going?

35:27
Tom Stanfill
Good.

35:27
Tab Norris
He said, So you got anything lying around on your desk that I can take care of for you? I’m like, So that’s your strategy because.

35:34
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I sell stuff.

35:36
Tab Norris
I’m like, wow. So to your point, I feel like a lot of times I just had this conversation with a client not long ago. A lot of sellers live so late in the sales process that even if they want to have the right approach and they want to do the right things, they’re so late it doesn’t matter. And I think that’s what you’re alluding to if you come in too late. The ship’s already sailed.

36:05
Tom Stanfill
You can’t influence and this is the bad news, part of the bad news. That role is being diminished. The role of they are organizing the salespeople out of that process. Like, that’s where the work day is. They have these portals, the information in. It’s like, we don’t want to talk to salespeople. You enter the information in, we’ll make our decision without you. And the problem is what they’re looking for isn’t the right solution. A lot of times, and you know that when you get the proposal, you’re like, oh gosh, these guys don’t know what they’re doing. Yeah, right. But if you don’t understand what the process they’re going through, you can’t back up. You can’t get in early and back up because you don’t even know what they’re just going to go in. Is there anything line around your desk? And the answer is no.

36:56
Tom Stanfill
Then you come in the next month, is there any line on your dress? Yeah, great. Because they’re selling a product. But if we want to succeed, we need to be able to articulate the process. We don’t need to articulate to our customers necessarily, but we need to be able to determine where are they in the process and then have a value that we can offer to the customer and to the right people. Because you may be talking to somebody early. It’s early, so they haven’t got the initiative yet. Yeah, but if you know what’s happening and by the way, if they don’t know what’s happening, you realize you’re at the wrong level, right? And you got to move up. And so it really opens the door to start having a completely different conversation. And so as you’re talking to the customer about or key stakeholders or decision maker about the process, you are starting to add value and shape how they think about it.

37:57
Tom Stanfill
And now you have a completely different relationship.

38:00
Tab Norris
So I love this and this may be a good kind of wrap up for and I’m sure we’re going to come back. There’s more to talk about. But if I was going to put a bow on this, the good news is the sales role through all this should be elevated, like much more valuable. That’s how you survive. You’re going to survive in sales by being really good and being focused on the customer and bringing value and really help guide them through this process. And if not, you’re going to be extinct.

38:44
Tom Stanfill
That’s a good summary and I think it captures what we’ve really been trying to say, or I’ve been trying to say, is where the market is going, they’re going to need less and less and less. They’ve been saying this for years, but it’s really happening. Less and less transactional people who say, I need a product, great. You tell me the specs, I’ll ask questions around the product you need and I’m going to give you that product, there’s going to be less and less opportunities for sellers.

39:09
Tab Norris
And I got lots of clients that are all about that right now. Think about most all of our big client, everybody, all of them. That’s where they are. The leadership understands that.

39:19
Tom Stanfill
The leadership understands that they’re moving because of the market. But if you can and I’ll give you a great example, I’ll close with this working with a company that sells welding equipment, right? So they would be on the concrete talking to the people that weld all kinds of things like manufacturers that are welding things. And so we would talk about we’re on the concrete, we’re talking to people that are using the equipment. And these people are the best that they’re creating this equipment. And we would say, well, what’s happening up there in the carpet? This is a manufacturing organization. Where are they trying to go? And how can you help them? Because they use a lot of your equipment. How can you help them navigate that, understand what’s on their whiteboard, understand what their strategies are? What bets are they making? How are they expanding?

40:14
Tom Stanfill
What businesses are they moving into? And how can you help them? Because they would go I don’t know. Yeah, the concrete rep who just focuses on selling the product is going to go away. Yeah, but the people that can go to the carpet and influence them are going to make, I think, a lot more money. There’s going to be a lot fewer of them. And by the way, we can talk next time about, well, there are still conversations we have to have on the concrete level with people that you walk in their office and go, what’s? Anything on your desk? There’s a different way to have those conversations where people are unsuccessful that can be more successful. But I think big picture, that’s what I’m seeing on the horizon, which is a big opportunity for people who can make that shift.

41:02
Tab Norris
I love it. Good stuff, Tom.

41:06
Tom Stanfill
Beautiful. I hope we got a little high level today, tab.

41:12
Tab Norris
We can do that every once in a while.

41:13
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we get a high level of it. Well, why don’t you close this out? I always close this out. You close this out since…

41:20
Tab Norris
Thank you, Tom, for joining us for another episode of Sales with Aslan.

41:26
Tom Stanfill
I don’t feel like that was the announcer voice that you need.

41:28
Tab Norris
I can’t do the announcer. I don’t have it. That’s why I don’t do it.

41:33
Tom Stanfill
Okay. You don’t have it. Okay. All right. Seriously? Yeah. We do always appreciate our listeners and people tuning in with us. Good to see you, my friend.

41:42
Tab Norris
You, too.

41:43
Tom Stanfill
Until then. Until next time on another episode of Sales with Aslan. I had to say it.

41:47
Tab Norris
Yeah, you can’t stop.