Ep. 153 – How to Never Forget a Name with Neil Kutzen

Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from Ep. 153 – How to Never Forget a Name

In this episode, Tom and Tab are joined by Neil Kutzen, Memory Trainer and Founder of MemorizeBest, a breakthrough method in memory training that helps you become more productive and successful in both your personal and professional life by helping you remember and recall more easily.

This topic is relevant for anyone, but especially for those of us in sales who are building relationships daily. We form connections with our customers, friends, and family because of how we treat them, and a critical element of how we treat them relies on what we remember about them.

Listen to the conversation here:

Or check out the full transcript:

00:14

Tom Stanfill

Welcome back and all of our vast listeners to another episode of SALES with ASLAN. I’m your host, Tom Stanfill. Probably know because they probably read the show notes. They probably didn’t just get on the show, Tab and say, well, who’s the host and co host?

00:30

Tab Norris

Yeah, they know.

00:33

Tom Stanfill

It’S a thing like wildfire. It’s wildflower.

00:37

Tab Norris

Wildflowers.

00:39

Tom Stanfill

Like wildflowers. Yeah. Flower. Which one is it? Flower. Anyway, so we’re professionals. We are professionals. Good to be back in the studio with you, Tab, as always.

00:49

Tab Norris

Yes, it is. 

00:49

Tom Stanfill

Tab, this episode, I think I can say this, I know we plug our episodes. We usually make overly strong statements about how amazing these episodes are. I needed this one more than any other episode we’ve ever recorded. I truly believe that. I think that’s a sincere statement which is actually true.

01:13

Tab Norris

That’s what I love about this is we’re all over the place. One day we’re talking about parenting, next day we’re talking about handling objections and how to have a better marriage.

01:26

Neil Kutzen

I love it.

01:27

Tom Stanfill

It’s great. Handling Objections in Your Marriage is our next podcast.

01:32

Tab Norris

It’s like that TV commercial.

01:34

Tom Stanfill

Housewives, football. Housewives, football. Hey, it’s life, man. Our whole thing is about sell better, lead better, live better. Yeah, everything we talk about, it’s all interconnected, which is why we’re in this business. Because how we excel, how we influence affects our relationships and nothing is more important than our EP relationships. This is one of those things that was a beautiful transition. One of those things that affects our relationships maybe more than anything. That’s probably a little strong. That’s a little strong. But I’m selling the podcast right now. 

Tab Norris

Okay, back off.

Alright, I’m selling the podcast. No, but cause we talk about, we think about why people are attracted to us, right? What people draws people and we all want to be attractive, we want to have good relationships. We think a lot of times we default to like, who are we? What have we accomplished? What have we done? That’s not why people are attracted to us. People are attracted to us because of how we treat them. A critical element to how we treat them is what we remember about them.

02:40

Tab Norris

Yes.

02:41

Tom Stanfill

Do we know the little details? Do we remember our last conversations? Do we know what their kids names? Or do we know their name? My big problem.

02:49

Tab Norris

Well, you’re not alone, my friend. Yeah, it is hard.

02:53

Tom Stanfill

It’s difficult. I think I struggle with it more than you do. I really do think it is something that I continually shock people by proving to them I really do have maybe the worst memory because I don’t know that person’s name. That’s not possible. Well, that’s true.

03:09

Tab Norris

We weren’t together for 27 years. I know. I don’t understand.

03:13

Tom Stanfill

I’m going to tell a personal story. I was in church Sunday and they’re like, hey, is there anybody you’re praying for. I’m like and they literally said, if you’re praying for somebody, I’ve been praying for them a long time. Raise your hand. I raise my hand. I don’t normally do that, but I did.

03:27

Tab Norris

Yes.

03:28

Tom Stanfill

Some guy comes over to me and he goes, hey, who are you praying for?

03:34

Tab Norris

I have no idea.

03:36

Tom Stanfill

I couldn’t remember their name.

03:37

Tab Norris

I call him dude.

03:40

Tom Stanfill

It came to me eventually, but I was like, I can’t remember. I get embarrassed like that all the time. This guy answered two of my biggest questions, right? Is it possible? Is it teachable? This like a mental flaw that I have? Like, you’re only so tall and you just can’t get taller. This kind of a flaw that I’m just born with? Or can I learn to remember people’s names? This guy that we have on the show, Neil Kutzman, is an expert in memory, and he convinced us that it’s Teachable.

04:22

Tab Norris

He did. I was very skeptical, candidly coming into it. I’m like, were you skeptical? I was definitely skeptical.

04:28

Tom Stanfill

Yeah, I definitely was. I was too. I was less skeptical after a pre show meeting.

04:33

Tab Norris

Oh, yeah, you did a little pre game.

04:35

Tom Stanfill

Yeah, because I was skeptical, so I had a pre meeting with them to kind of preshow meeting with them. Anyway, he teaches us the other question is, how do you do it? If that’s true, how do you do it? He on the show to have right here in front of your very eyes, he taught us how to do it, and we still remember what he taught us or the things that the names that we had to remember. I started as I was prepping for this. I was like, do I still remember those names? I do.

05:03

Tab Norris

Didn’t even have to hesitate. Instantly came into my mind, which is there’s something to that. We don’t pull it from them, but it works.

05:11

Tom Stanfill

It works. Neil is going to demonstrate specifically how to remember the most probably important thing about people. Maybe not the easiest, but definitely the most important is their name. Obviously we can leverage what he teaches us about memorizing to other things that we need to remember. So, Tab, let’s do the show. Neil, welcome to the show, my friend. I know I say this all the time, Tab. I say that I’m excited about this episode, but I really need what Neil is offering. I need his expertise. I am the world’s worst at remembering names. I mean, I have to work, maybe membering anything except for experiential stuff. I’m really good at remembering, like movies or things I’ve experienced, but like in animate objects name, like details. I mean, I can work with somebody for a year and love them and see them three months later at a function, and I’m like, I don’t know who that is.

06:17

Tom Stanfill

I know who they are. I remember all that.

06:19

Tab Norris

But I just don’t know your name.

06:20

Tom Stanfill

So I want to learn. I need this on a scale of one to ten, remembering names. I think I’m a 1.4 tab.

06:28

Tab Norris

Yeah, I think it used to be a six. Now that I’m old, I’m now a 3.2 point.

06:35

Tom Stanfill

So, Neil, you got your work cut out, so if you can help us, you can help our vast audience of sellers who all obviously know they need to remember important information. So, again, welcome to the show.

06:47

Neil Kutzen

Well, thank you. Good to be here. Thanks for inviting me in.

06:51

Tom Stanfill

Yeah, well, as I learned and were prepping for the show, this is going to be super helpful. I’m already applying what you taught me when we prepped and it’s working, I remember my wife’s name now. I went home and I said, Claire.

07:11

Tab Norris

You get an ideal for that.

07:13

Neil Kutzen

Yeah.

07:13

Tom Stanfill

I looked at the dog and I said, Emmy, and the dog looked up like you remembered.

07:20

Neil Kutzen

How did you remember your wife’s name?

07:22

Tom Stanfill

I’m kidding.

07:25

Neil Kutzen

But her name is Claire.

07:27

Tom Stanfill

Is that right?

07:28

Neil Kutzen

So we would use an Eclair.

07:33

Tom Stanfill

She loves eclairs. Or a Claire, however you pronounce that.

07:40

Neil Kutzen

Okay.

07:40

Tom Stanfill

Anyway, we’re excited. To kind of start off by telling us how you became a memory expert, kind of what drew you into this field, because I know you have a background in teaching and training and acting. How did all of that lead you to becoming a thought leader in the field of memory?

08:04

Neil Kutzen

Well, actually, it was a convergence of my background in training and my acting. I’ve been doing training for 25 years with some high end companies, motorola for one of them. So, for example, I would do training on management skills, but I never managed people. I would do training on creativity for engineers, but I wasn’t an engineer. Eventually I just stopped doing it, I think, because the stuff really wasn’t the content wasn’t stuff that really mattered to me.

08:34

Tom Stanfill

Right, yeah.

08:36

Neil Kutzen

Ten years ago, on a dare, I auditioned for a play, and I wasn’t going to do it, but the director said, look, you could bring in any audition piece you want. You have a favorite audition piece. I said, well, I’ve never used it, but I love the scene in Glen Gary Glen Ross, where Alec Baldwin talks to the sales group.

08:57

Tom Stanfill

Right?

08:58

Neil Kutzen

Yeah. Why don’t you do that? So I went and I did it. That’s the coffee is for closure zone. First prizes of Cadillac Eldorado. Second prizes instead of steak knives. Third prizes, your fire. I had fun with it and I did a nice job, but then something happened I really wasn’t prepared for. I was offered the role.

09:21

Tom Stanfill

Yeah, I got it.

09:23

Neil Kutzen

No, I was offered the role. Not in Glengarry glen Ross.

09:29

Tom Stanfill

Right.

09:31

Neil Kutzen

I saw the script. This play had three characters in it, three men, and I had a third of all the lines that are full length play and you had to be off book in a couple of weeks. There was no way I could memorize all my lines.

09:46

Tom Stanfill

It sounds impossible.

09:47

Tab Norris

You said a couple of weeks, like you were on in a couple of weeks.

09:51

Neil Kutzen

Yeah, I mean, you have five weeks of rehearsal. You have to be off book in three weeks so that you can do the other things necessary. What I like to say is that desperation became my inspiration and I found a method and I said, look, I’m not going to be able to remember these lines by wrote repetition. Let me try this method. I mean, what else did I have? It worked, and it worked really well. The play came off and I had twelve performances and I never forgot my lines. Afterwards, remember, I’d been a trainer who never loved the training because it was not things that I did. This method saved my b***.

10:35

Tom Stanfill

Wow.

10:36

Neil Kutzen

I decided the world needed me to teach this method. For ten years now I’ve been teaching the method and kind of fine tuning it and fine tuning it to where the approach to teaching it is something that I really take a lot of pride in. And that’s what happened.

10:54

Tom Stanfill

That’s exciting. Yeah. I love that story where when people get into a field because it worked for them. Yeah, it’s such a compelling I was actually watching a YouTube video on somebody that it was telling their story. Like they were talking about how they learned to move from being awkward and connecting with people in crowds. They were an introvert, they were shy, they felt awkward and they said so it was for them that they figured out how to do that. I think that’s a compelling which is hard for me to have because I’m so good at everything. It’s hard for me to tell that story.

11:27

Tab Norris

Yeah, I know, but that’s just a cross you have to bear, Tom.

11:31

Tom Stanfill

I’m sorry.

11:31

Neil Kutzen

So just let you know that.

11:35

Tom Stanfill

Except remember that I hadn’t been in.

11:38

Neil Kutzen

A play in 37 years. I had an average memory, but I tried to avoid and did a very nice job avoiding major memory tasks. It just wasn’t something that I did. Now it’s a whole different story. Now I look for things to remember.

11:58

Tom Stanfill

It’s fun because you’re good at it.

12:00

Neil Kutzen

Well, not just I’m good at it, I actually enjoy memorizing. You see, the old way of memorizing was wrote repetition. Wrote repetition is not fun, it’s tedious, it’s uncertain. This way of memorizing is like a game. It’s like a puzzle game. You put these pieces of the puzzle together, you use pictures, you use words, and then you solve the puzzle. I mean, I do Wordal every day because it’s a puzzle game that I enjoy and memorizing is a puzzle game. Why not look for things to memorize.

12:34

Tom Stanfill

That is a breakthrough throt for me, because that’s one of the reasons I hate to speak or anything that requires me to memorize. I like sharing and helping and talking. Tab, you can attest it.

12:51

Neil Kutzen

I do.

12:51

Tab Norris

You’re not afraid.

12:55

Tom Stanfill

The prep is what I don’t like because I don’t like the rote repetition of memorizing what I’ve got to say, because I don’t want to read.

13:03

Neil Kutzen

Well, help us. Let me quote from one of my sooths, Mary Poppins.

13:10

Tab Norris

I love her.

13:13

Neil Kutzen

In any job that must be done, there’s an element of fun. Find the fun. And the job is a game. And that’s what it is. That’s what it is. Memorizing is a game.

13:24

Tom Stanfill

Beautiful.

13:25

Neil Kutzen

All right.

13:26

Tom Stanfill

Tab, this the first time we’ve quoted Mary Poppins on the ship. You’re right. I think we’ll lead with what Mary.

13:34

Tab Norris

Poppins no, it’s funny. I was telling Tom, I don’t remember much, but I still remember the planets because my mom made learning fun, and it was a song. You know what I mean? It was so great. I mean, here that was what I don’t even know, 50 years ago, and I still remember it because we sang it and we had fun with it.

13:54

Neil Kutzen

It’s crazy. It used to be that memorizing was something that was taught. We have the three R’s reading, writing, arithmetic. In ancient Greece, there’s reading, writing, arithmetic, and remembering. And they taught it in school. Why they taught it in school? Because they had no paper and no books. We’re talking ancient Greece, 500 BC. There was a lot of things people wanted to know. They wanted to pass it on to other people. They wanted to pass it on through time. Commerce, fishing, agriculture, medicine, all these subjects.

14:31

Tom Stanfill

That are very solid.

14:35

Tab Norris

Yeah, we better not let that die out.

14:38

Tom Stanfill

They pass along the euro.

14:40

Neil Kutzen

There was content, and the only way was that it had to be memorized. And so they taught it. Of course, then we don’t do it anymore because books came along, paper came along, and yet everybody wants a better memory.

14:57

Tom Stanfill

I’m like, we got to dive in because we got to give them something tangible and me tangible. Let’s start with probably maybe the challenge is probably most easily solved is membrane names. Which, again, I got a one point. I can’t remember what I said earlier.

15:20

Neil Kutzen

I’m going to show you three faces, three people. I’m going to tell you their names, and you’re going to remember their names, and you’re going to remember those names in this new way.

15:29

Tom Stanfill

Okay?

15:30

Neil Kutzen

The first thing is, when you look at a face, you have to identify a single key feature on the face.

15:39

Tom Stanfill

Okay?

15:39

Neil Kutzen

Now, the problem is not everybody has a big nose like Serena or has Carol Channing’s enormous mouth. You have to find a single feature. I just want to tell your listeners that if you go to my website, Memorize Best.com, you click on Resources, you will find a book called Amazing Face Reading, and this book has 170 sketches of 170 features, seven kinds of chins, eight kinds of eyebrows, nine kinds of mouth. When you look at these, you become better at identifying those features, which you sometimes need if a face doesn’t have a particular feature that stands out. All right, so let me show you. Can you see this woman’s face right here?

16:34

Tab Norris

Yes.

16:35

Neil Kutzen

Okay, so what’s the single feature on her head or face that stands out for you?

16:42

Tab Norris

Her hair.

16:43

Neil Kutzen

Her hair? She has a big lock. Not a big lock of dark black, curly hair, lot of it. Okay, so that’s curly hair. That’s the feature we’re going to choose. The next time you see her, you’re going to remember that you chose her hair, right? Yeah. Okay, fine. All right, next. All right, what’s the key feature, single feature on this man’s face?

17:15

Tom Stanfill

Wrinkled.

17:16

Neil Kutzen

Okay, wrinkles. You want to pick a section of wrinkles.

17:21

Tab Norris

Can I pick the mouth? I picked the wrinkles.

17:24

Tom Stanfill

I said the forehead. You did the hair last time. Why can’t I have the forehead?

17:28

Neil Kutzen

You can have the wrinkles around the mouth. Tom, you have the wrinkles around the forest. Okay, next time you see this person, you’re going to remember that feature, okay? Got it. All right, next person. What’s the single feature on this woman’s face?

17:44

Tab Norris

Teeth.

17:45

Neil Kutzen

Right. I mean, they’re not enormous, but she.

17:48

Tab Norris

Has bigger teeth than normal.

17:50

Neil Kutzen

She has prominent teeth.

17:51

Tab Norris

Prominent teeth.

17:52

Neil Kutzen

Okay.

17:52

Tab Norris

A better way to say that.

17:54

Neil Kutzen

Okay, so let’s take them away. Next time you see these three people, you’re going to remember the feature that you chose, okay? Right now. And that’s the first thing you do. In fact, when you go up to a person, typically when you approach a person, you ask yourself questions, what are we going to talk about? Oh, my God, do I know this person? Will I remember their name? This person going to be a good prospect? Will I be able to sell? You have a lot of questions you ask, right? There’s a new question now that you need to ask before you ask any of those questions. The question is, what’s the feature on their face that I’m going to remember? What’s that single key feature? Okay, so we’ve done it tuned in.

18:38

Tom Stanfill

A distinguishable feature, right? Got it.

18:41

Neil Kutzen

You can go on to whatever else you want to ask about yourself and then the other person. All right, so now I’m going to tell you their names, but not necessarily in the order. We’re going to look for a single picture of something that will remind you of the name. Now, some names already are pictures. The name Rose. It’s a picture. The name Honey, it’s a picture. So that’s fine, but most toilet. Right, but most names are not. What we do is we come up with what’s called the reminder image, a picture of something that will remind you of the name. So, for example, it could be symbolic for the name Georgia. For example, you might picture a peach. Okay? Georgia peach almost sounds like a picture. For example, for the name Owl, I use an owl just because it sounds like it. Some names it might rhyme with it like the name Marge, I might picture a barge.

19:45

Neil Kutzen

Or for the name Dwayne, I might picture a drain. Okay. Some names the first syllable of the name is something you can use. For example, the name Henry, I might picture a hen. Okay. In some cases, you have two syllables and you want to come up with an image for each syllable. For example, for the name Randolph, for Ran, I might picture rain. For Dolph, I might picture a dolphin. So we have rain and dolphin. Okay.

20:25

Tom Stanfill

Assuming you get better at this as you start to practice, it starts to happen quickly, because if you’re sitting there looking at their features and you’re taking a picture, meanwhile, they’re just staring at you as you’re like, hold on just a second. I’m trying to figure out what your features I need to look at and hold on. Maybe you could ask them to help.

20:46

Tab Norris

Yeah. What do people say your big feature is on your face?

20:52

Tom Stanfill

I imagine this starts to happen pretty quickly.

20:54

Neil Kutzen

Well, a couple of things. One is you might describe how this method works to people. You never, ever tell the person what the feature is that you chose on their face.

21:08

Tab Norris

That’s a caution.

21:12

Tom Stanfill

I guess. It could be. Even if it’s a compliment, it could be.

21:15

Neil Kutzen

No, we’ll see. I had one time, a fellow came up to me and he asked me, what’s the feature? He had these beautiful white teeth, and I told him, but there was a woman standing next to him, and she said, what’s the feature on it? And so it’s like never.

21:34

Tom Stanfill

It’s in the fault. Well, as far as truck for you.

21:42

Tab Norris

I’m sorry, it was barge.

21:45

Neil Kutzen

As far as coming up with the feature, as far as coming up with the words you’re going to use, which, by the way, I call the reminder image, it does take some time.

21:57

Tom Stanfill

Okay.

21:57

Neil Kutzen

I do have a master class, as it turns out, where I teach how to get better at that skill. It’s a skill you learn, actually. It’s like learning a new language. You have to translate from English into images. As with any language, there’s a process of getting better at it, and you can get really good at it. All right. Sometimes a verb will work, not always as well as a noun, but for example, for the name Amy, I might picture somebody aiming got it. If a foreign language, you have an advantage because you have a whole other lexicon of words that you could pull to use as reminder images. So, for example, for the name Pamela, turns out that in Spanish, pamela is a ladies broad brimmed hat. If you happen to know that and you meet a Pamela, you could use the hat. All right, so the three names of the three people here, one of the names is Steve.

23:02

Neil Kutzen

What would be a reminder image for Steve? A picture of something that will remind you of the name Steve.

23:11

Tab Norris

I’m already stumped on the first one.

23:15

Tom Stanfill

I thought of my brother. Okay, can you think of your brother? I guess that’s not an image, is it?

23:21

Neil Kutzen

No, it’s not an image. If there’s one feature not one feature. There one thing about Steve, like an item, an object that you kind of associate with Steve? For example, if he’s into surfing, he’s into fishing. Well, then you picture and what would be the item, the fishing rod or the fish?

23:45

Tom Stanfill

Fishing rod, because I would step on his fishing rod.

23:47

Neil Kutzen

Okay, so you can picture the fishing rod must okay, so let me tell you what I use for Steve. I use a sleeve because it rhymes sleeve.

24:00

Tab Norris

I think it’s steam.

24:02

Tom Stanfill

I thought that steam, too.

24:03

Neil Kutzen

Yeah, no, that’s a possibility. But let’s use sleeve. Okay. Sleeve.

24:08

Tab Norris

Okay, I’m going to go with sleeve.

24:10

Neil Kutzen

Another possibility is stove for Steve. Let’s use sleeve because it rhymes with Steve. Okay.

24:19

Tom Stanfill

All right.

24:19

Neil Kutzen

All right. Next name is Angela. What would be the image for Angela?

24:27

Tab Norris

Angel.

24:28

Neil Kutzen

Done.

24:29

Tom Stanfill

Like that.

24:29

Neil Kutzen

Done. I had somebody say recently in training, well, I have angel. The angel would have a halo. No, you don’t need the halo. Part of the reason, if you focus on the halo, you might rethink of her name as Haley.

24:49

Tom Stanfill

Keep only the name, the label and the image because you’ll forget.

24:55

Neil Kutzen

All right, let’s see if I can remember. Oh, yeah. Third name is Rachel. So let’s use two images. What would you use for Rachel? Two images.

25:09

Tab Norris

Rake and satchel.

25:14

Neil Kutzen

Okay, let’s tighten it up .

25:17

Tab Norris

Okay, I’m just popping.

25:19

Neil Kutzen

Okay, that’s good. What happens is, as you practice and get better, you go from free associating, which is what you just did.

25:30

Tom Stanfill

I would do ray of light.

25:32

Neil Kutzen

Yes.

25:37

Tom Stanfill

Chilling. Ray of light. That keeps you from chilling. Ray of light. Chill.

25:45

Neil Kutzen

How about shell? Ray, chill. Okay.

25:47

Tom Stanfill

All right. Sure. You’re the expert. Let’s do that. Ray, chill. What was shell like? The ray and the chill go together for me. But that’s okay.

25:57

Neil Kutzen

Chill.

26:00

Tab Norris

Chilling at the beach. I’m doing what he did about the angel thing. Now it’s a big mess.

26:06

Neil Kutzen

The thing is, you want to come up with a picture of something that only will have maybe one word associated with it. If you do chill, it could be freeze.

26:18

Tom Stanfill

It could be I got it. Ray and Shell.

26:22

Neil Kutzen

I have something called better. If the name were Marsha, which is not here, there’s no one named Marsha. What would be the image you would come up with? What’s a possible image from Marsha?

26:33

Tom Stanfill

Marsha.

26:34

Tab Norris

Marsh.

26:35

Neil Kutzen

Okay. There another one you might come up with? Marsh.

26:40

Tab Norris

Martha would be marsh.

26:42

Neil Kutzen

Okay. Let me tell you, the two that people come up with are Marsh and Marshmallow. One of those is a good image, and one of them is not. Marsh is not a good image. And here’s why. Remember, you don’t remember the name, you just have that picture. If you picture a marsh, there’s about ten other words you can come up with fen, swamp, huddle, hond, bog, wetness in my backyard, everglades. There’s a lot of possibilities for the picture of something that’s a marsh. If you picture a marshmallow, there’s no other possibility but Marshmallow.

27:23

Tom Stanfill

Well, there’s that monster in Ghostbusters.

27:27

Neil Kutzen

The state.

27:28

Tab Norris

Puff marshmallow Man that is true, but.

27:31

Tom Stanfill

It’S only one other picture.

27:33

Tab Norris

Let me ask you a question, Neil, because this is good, because I totally agree with you, but can it be are there ways to be in the rule? Because I’m from Savannah, Georgia, and Marsh is one image for me. Yeah, you see what I’m saying? Does that matter?

27:52

Neil Kutzen

Does it matter?

27:52

Tab Norris

Is it individual?

27:54

Neil Kutzen

Yes, it is individual. Okay. When you picture the thing, only marsh comes to mind. Not by then, you can use it.

28:02

Tab Norris

Because that’s exactly one image, and it’s where I drove across every single day in my life.

28:07

Neil Kutzen

Most people don’t they don’t have that. Well, they’re not from Savannah. Right, but that’s true for me. In fact, all these other words, they’re not words that people even think about. Anyway, so it’s called the Marshmallow test. When you come up with an image, you give it the Marshmallow Test and see how many other images, how many other words you could apply to it. All right? So we have the three. We have array in a shell, we have a sleeve, and we have angel. Now let’s go back and look at these three people. What we’re going to do is connect the image to the feature on the face in a ridiculous way. It has to be ridiculous. Why? Because your hippocampus, which is in the image center of your brain, holds onto ridiculous images much better than it holds onto ordinary ones. Our lives are filled with ordinary images.

29:11

Neil Kutzen

If you can make it a ridiculous one, it will remember it, and in fact, it will remember it so well, you don’t need to do the remembering. Your hippocampus will do the remembering for you.

29:23

Tom Stanfill

It’s kind of like the caricature idea. Like yes, exactly.

29:27

Neil Kutzen

Right. Actually, I’ve had this happen a couple of times where I’ve had students, and the students said, yeah, I used to use that. Actually, I met someone named Honey, one time. I used honey to help me remember that person. And then I asked the question. I said, how did you picture it? He said, well, that’s actually a little embarrassing. I pictured pouring the honey over the person’s head. Over the woman’s head. I know that’s a little embarrassing. I said, no, you know what’s embarrassing? What’s embarrassing is not remembering the name. This person instinctively got that silly was a better way to remember it than if you just held a jar of honey next to the person. So they instinctively did that. Well, that’s what you need to do.

30:20

Tom Stanfill

Okay.

30:21

Tab Norris

That’s a good image for me, the pouring over. Yeah.

30:23

Neil Kutzen

I like that. That’s good. All right.

30:26

Tom Stanfill

I’m curious to see how this is going to work.

30:28

Neil Kutzen

Me, too.

30:29

Tab Norris

I’m anxious.

30:30

Neil Kutzen

So it’s her teeth, correct?

30:32

Tab Norris

Yes, teeth.

30:33

Tom Stanfill

Right.

30:33

Neil Kutzen

Her name is Rachel, and it was ray and a shell. What I want you to do is to picture her teeth becoming shells. Pouring out from those shells is one ray of sun. Five rays of sun, x rays. However you want to do it, that rays are coming out from her shells that are shelves.

30:56

Tab Norris

Got it? Okay.

30:58

Neil Kutzen

Now, you need to actually picture it. Not just hear me say it, not even just say it yourself.

31:03

Tab Norris

I can see it. It’s exploding on my face.

31:06

Neil Kutzen

Right?

31:06

Tom Stanfill

She’s saying things like, so where are you from?

31:09

Tab Norris

What’s your sign.

31:18

Tom Stanfill

In a crab? Come out of one of them and the sunlight is very sunny out of your mouth from Atlanta.

31:29

Neil Kutzen

This takes a second or two, and then you can go on to those other things. When you do that okay, if you walked into a meeting and there was a woman standing there and she had shells, her teeth and rays coming out of them, if that actually happened, how long would you remember it?

31:48

Tom Stanfill

Forever.

31:49

Neil Kutzen

Forever. Well, guess what? No, here’s the point. Your hippocampus doesn’t make a distinction between what you see and what you only imagine seeing. It doesn’t care. What you’re doing is you’re hacking your hippo.

32:06

Tom Stanfill

I guess.

32:10

Neil Kutzen

You’Re giving it an image to hold onto that it will hold onto. And remember, you said it. If you actually saw it, you’d remember it forever. This is very close to that.

32:21

Tom Stanfill

To see it is what you’re saying I’m seeing it?

32:23

Neil Kutzen

Yes, you see it. When you see it, you’re passing it on to your hippocampus. Okay. All right. Her name is Rachel. No, that was Rachel. This is Angela.

32:37

Tab Norris

Angela.

32:38

Neil Kutzen

And you’re going to use angel. Here’s what I want you to do, though. Remember silly work. So don’t tell me. You see angel in her hair. That’s tame, that’s ordinary. I understand. You wouldn’t see angel in a hair. But better to go with exaggeration. Either exaggeration of the number of angels or the size of the angels or what the angels are doing. So make it really. Ridiculous and silly. What do you I got it.

33:09

Tab Norris

The angel’s massive and it almost makes her head move. She’s trying to tease her and keep it up. It’s such a massive angel behind it.

33:17

Neil Kutzen

You’ve made an exaggeration of the size of the angel.

33:20

Tab Norris

Yeah.

33:20

Neil Kutzen

You could also make exaggeration of the number of angels.

33:23

Tab Norris

Okay.

33:24

Neil Kutzen

And then what’s the angel doing? The angel just sitting in her hair? Well, Manchester angel doing something angel wouldn’t even do, smoking a cigarette.

33:40

Tom Stanfill

I like that.

33:41

Tab Norris

I got that.

33:42

Tom Stanfill

The angel is kicking back on the top part of her head. I wish you could see that. Yeah. She’s kicking back on the top part of her head because it looks very comfortable up there. If you’re a small angel and she’s smoking a cigarette, well, let’s say baby.

34:01

Neil Kutzen

But be careful. When you add a whole other picture of something, there’s a possibility the next time you see her, you’re going to think about the cigarette and call her Siggy. Think about, for example, some people say, oh yeah, I’m going to picture angel with a halo. Afterwards they might wind up thinking her name is Haley. Don’t put too many other things in there. Just have the angel doing something.

34:27

Tom Stanfill

Okay.

34:28

Tab Norris

But maybe not anything. She’s too specific.

34:30

Neil Kutzen

Okay. We got it though, because next time you see her, you’re going to remember the angels in her hair, right? Yeah. All right. Good. Next one. All right.

34:40

Tom Stanfill

I bet I know which one this one is.

34:42

Tab Norris

Yes. Sleevey.

34:44

Neil Kutzen

His name is Steve. If we took the top wrinkles on his forehead and actually pretty wavy wrinkles, use substitution. You’re going to take those wrinkles and make those wrinkles become one long wavy sleeve, like a big shirt sleeve. Okay. Or the wrinkles down the side of his mouth. Again, same thing. Turn them into a sleeve.

35:09

Tab Norris

Yeah.

35:10

Neil Kutzen

All right. You see, it totally all right. If you actually saw somebody who had a sleeve where normally you had forehead wrinkles, how long would you remember it?

35:20

Tab Norris

Forever.

35:21

Neil Kutzen

Forever. Your hippo doesn’t care. Ready? Alright, so what are their names? How about the woman in the middle? What’s her name?

35:31

Tom Stanfill

Angela.

35:32

Tab Norris

Angela angel.

35:33

Neil Kutzen

The woman on the right, what’s her name?

35:36

Tab Norris

Rachel.

35:36

Tom Stanfill

Rachel.

35:37

Neil Kutzen

The fellow on the left, what’s his name?

35:39

Tom Stanfill

Lee.

35:40

Neil Kutzen

Guess what? If I send these to you tomorrow, next week, next month, you will remember them. If you made it more important, like they were like hot prospects, you would remember even longer.

35:54

Tom Stanfill

God, this is good. Yeah. I think it’s good to stop here real quickly. Neil, remind people why this is so important. Because even if it’s an existing relationship, especially, or you’re having a follow up call, or you’re talking to them again and details beyond their name, but who they are, it makes them feel, as we talk about all the time, unique and special. It’s like one of the meets an emotional need that’s much deeper than their physical needs or business needs, but so it really goes deep. I love this.

36:29

Neil Kutzen

There’s last names and there’s facts about people. What you can do is turn the last name into an image too, and connect the image for the first name to the image for the last name. You have facts about the person. You turn those facts into images and then connect the last name to the facts about the people.

36:50

Tom Stanfill

Do you do this to memorize your lines in the play? I mean, when you talk about you just have image after image when you’re thinking about this paragraph that you’re going to say.

37:01

Neil Kutzen

If I had a paragraph in the paragraph, let’s say had seven lines, I would break the paragraph up into seven lines. I would take one word from each line, the word that was the anchor for that line, that if I knew that word, I would remember the line. You would have to anchor out of 100 words. Maybe I only needed to come up with ten or twelve.

37:24

Tom Stanfill

Romeo, Romeo. Wherefore art thou Romeo? Deny thy father and refuse thy name.

37:30

Tab Norris

You just wanted to shut know.

37:31

Tom Stanfill

That all I focus on, deny.

37:37

Neil Kutzen

I want to tell you and tell your audience a couple of things. If you go to Harry Lorraine, L-O-R-A-Y-N-E I’ve got a secret on YouTube, you will find him memorizing the names of 500 people in a studio audience after last names, which is even tougher.

37:58

Tom Stanfill

First and last name?

38:00

Neil Kutzen

No, just last name. Okay, that is afterwards he’s asked how he did it and when you hear how he did it, you’re going to go, oh, wait a second. That’s what Neil taught us today. That’s how he did it. Just that way. If you go to my website, Memorizebest.com, and you click on resources, you can go to a book called Amazing Face Reading which will help you to identify the key features. Also. The very first part of my website has a form where you click on it and it will take you to a video that will actually go into more detail about how to remember names. How to remember first names. Last names. Facts about the people. Go into how to remember lists and a bunch of other things all using the same method. Which is turning words into images and connecting them in a silly way.

38:52

Tom Stanfill

Neil, that’s incredibly helpful. What you’re saying, just to make sure I understand what you’re saying, is if we use this image connection technique what did you call it again? I think you had a name for it.

39:05

Neil Kutzen

I call them reminder images.

39:07

Tom Stanfill

Reminder images. Learn to do that and follow your really process, technique, approach, whatever you want to call it. Yes, we will be able to remember because we can’t help it. We’ll be able to remember these facts about people. Recall it. I’ll know what I’m going to say next because I can’t remember the lines, talking points, key information. It works for everything. Regardless of how bad you’re at it, you can learn it.

39:39

Neil Kutzen

Well, what you just described were words. Words are harder to remember than pictures. Pictures are much easier to remember. You create pictures instead of words and then you link them in a silly way and everything to be remembered can be done that way. Everything.

39:59

Tom Stanfill

How long does it take to where you become more fluid at it? Because I can imagine.

40:04

Neil Kutzen

Good question.

40:05

Tom Stanfill

Like this weekend I walk into a room and I start to do this. Obviously it took us a while, as you demonstrated.

40:14

Neil Kutzen

I have answer to that question. I’ve asked it before. If I were teaching you a foreign language, I was a teacher, let’s say Russian or whatever, Chinese, would you ask me how long is it going to take to get fluent at that language? Would you ask me that?

40:32

Tom Stanfill

I would.

40:32

Neil Kutzen

You know what my answer would be? It depends. It depends on how much time firstly, it depends on your motivation. It depends on how much time and effort you’re willing to put into it. It doesn’t that much depend even to be honest on how good a trainer I am in teaching you that language. It’s more how much time and effort you put into it. If you put the time and effort into this, then you start getting quick.

41:00

Tom Stanfill

It’s fluid. Basically what you’re saying you’ll get to where you move from trying to think about the like you’re learning a language and trying to think about the word and what does that mean? I got to translate it to one day I’m dreaming in another language. It will get you become that fluid. It is a process and it takes time learning a language.

41:20

Neil Kutzen

Yes, but also just to let you know, I’ve memorized the names of 50 people in a studio, in an audience. There are other times when I meet somebody and I forget their name. The reason I forgot their name is that what we’re talking about here is a superpower that you have to employ to use superman had to go into his phone booth to become Superman. He was clock Kent the rest of the time, unless you actually decide I’m going to use the method and consciously plan to use it doesn’t work. This is not something that will improve your natural memory for like anything, this will improve your trained memory if you use it. Let me just say one other thing. The word memory gets used too much. Short term memory, long term memory improvement, memory enhancement. The single best way to improve your memory, the single best way is to change how you memorize.

42:21

Tom Stanfill

Okay.

42:22

Neil Kutzen

That’s why my website is memorized best, not Memory. Best or Better Memory. It’s memorized.

42:30

Tom Stanfill

I think that’s one of the takeaways that I’m hearing, too. This is possible. Like, this isn’t a thing, your talent. You’re born with learning a language. It’s just you. It’s not because you’re born that way. You can’t remember. It’s that you’ve got to learn how to memorize. If you do, it’s like learning a language. I know I could learn a language. Maybe it might be easier for some people to learn a language, but I can still learn one. Right, and so if I utilize your approach and technique, I will be able to memorize. But it’s going to take time.

43:04

Neil Kutzen

But yes, it will. Like I said, I like to call it images. Another thing I like to say is that there is no such thing as a bad memory, only an untrained one.

43:18

Tom Stanfill

Got it.

43:21

Neil Kutzen

What’s popular these days is the Quick Fixes Prevagin Omega Three, Ginkgo Biloba, and they may help you with your natural memory. I want to say it one more time. The single best way to improve your memory is to change how you memorize.

43:43

Tom Stanfill

Right? Yeah. It’s like complaining that you can’t speak a language.

43:46

Neil Kutzen

Right?

43:47

Tom Stanfill

I’m going to take a pill because I don’t know how to speak Spanish. The guy on television says, if you take this bill, you will speak Spanish. You’re saying, that’s not how you learn to speak Spanish.

43:56

Neil Kutzen

Right.

43:57

Tom Stanfill

I think is it a good idea when you think about this is practice it. If like, I’m walking into a room of 50 people and it’s a big social event, that’s probably overwhelming if I’m starting this for the first time. If I’m in a let’s say I’m in a sales meeting with two people, and I focus on using this technique, image unique part of their features, come up with an image, maybe even do it later, and then see how that works and then kind of build on it from there. Is that a good way to start?

44:28

Neil Kutzen

There’s a better way.

44:30

Tom Stanfill

Okay.

44:30

Neil Kutzen

The reason it’s a better way is that you’re still under some pressure to learn their names.

44:34

Tom Stanfill

Okay.

44:36

Neil Kutzen

For example, one of the ways I practice and one of the ways they encourage is take a list. I have a set of all the pictures of all the 100 US. Senators. Now admittedly, there take a note of Richards and a lot of Johns, but actually another one just goes online and Googles Mail faces. Got it. Has a list of names, and it just attaches the names to the faces or identifies the features on the face of people they don’t know. Better to do it with people you don’t know just to practice it. Actually, the reason I have the Senators is that my daughter, when she first started working in the Senate, wanted to remember the names of all the senators, and she didn’t, and yet you see them walking down the corridor. I taught her the method, and she remembered all the senators, and she became the go to intern.

45:32

Neil Kutzen

There’d be, like, a group of four or five interns standing together, and they would see someone, and they knew the person was a senator, and they would turn to her for the name of the senator because she used the method. You can use senators. You can use anybody. When you get into the room now, you’re on the spot.

45:51

Tom Stanfill

Yeah, well, Neil, fascinating, super helpful. I mean, I am going to learn to memorize. I’m going to learn images and look forward to reading your material. Thank you for being on our show.

46:06

Neil Kutzen

Yes. I just want to say one more thing to you. Go forth and memorize. All right.

46:12

Tom Stanfill

Remind everybody again one more time how they can find you.

46:15

Neil Kutzen

Go to memorize best.com, click on resources, and you’ll find the book on basis. Also at the very top of the website is a link, actually a video about my method. Click on the link, and I will send you a 50 minutes video on how to use this method.

46:35

Tom Stanfill

Remind people again one more time of the person that you said memorized. Everybody in the audience.

46:42

Neil Kutzen

Oh, Harry. Lorraine. L-O-R-A-Y-N-E. I think it was I’ve Got a Secret.

46:48

Tom Stanfill

He does it, then reveals how he did it.

46:54

Neil Kutzen

He reveals how he did it, and it’s like, oh, wait, I got to see that. Yeah. All right, Neil, thank you.

47:00

Tom Stanfill

Thanks for being on the show, everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of SALES with ASLAN.