Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.
The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.
The following are notes from Ep. 148 – Relationships Determine Influence
In this episode, Tom and Tab discuss a subject that they believe is “the most important topic we will ever talk about.” What subject could possibly deserve this superlative? Drum roll please… relationships.
Specifically, how to have successful and fulfilling relationships – not only with our customers, but with the people we care about the most. While this topic isn’t the most flashy, exciting, or measurable – it is the foundation of everything that we do in sales. Relationships matter. Tune in now to hear Tom and Tab’s insights.
Listen to the conversation here:
Or check out the full transcript:
00:03
Tom Stanfill
Welcome to another episode of SALES with ASLAN. I’m your host, Tom Stanfill and I’m here, of course, with my trusty co-host, Dr. Tab Norris, the Chuck Norris of sales training. Tab, how are you doing today, my friend?
00:19
Tab Norris
Fantastic. Doing well. You look great today.
00:25
Tom Stanfill
I’m closing on my house today, Tab. I just feel like I got to dress up. I don’t know. I do have tennis shoes on. I’m still calling them tennis shoes…
00:38
Tab Norris
Sneakers. That’s what we call them.
00:39
Tom Stanfill
What’d they call them? Sneakers sneakers back in the seventies.
00:42
Tab Norris
No, I don’t know what they call them. You kidding? I’m only five years younger. We’re still both old…
00:50
Tom Stanfill
Tab how we always kind of talk about how great the podcast is going to be. We should probably just go ahead and let the listeners know. It’s probably not gonna be that great of a podcast.
01:02
Tab Norris
We’re going to set the bar really low.
01:03
Tom Stanfill
Well, if we always say this is an amazing podcast, we are really excited about it (you know which everybody does)… if you say that every time, it can’t be true. Go ahead and say, this is going to be a very good podcast.
01:15
Tab Norris
No, I think I’m going to rephrase that. I think you’re, I think you’re going a little too far. It may not be the best, how’s that? It may not. It’s going to be good, but we’re always trying to go from good to great. We can maybe say this happens sometimes when you come at it as a “good”, you look back and you go, that was great. So that’s what we’re striving for.
01:40
Tom Stanfill
You know what? What Tab let’s just build this up. I’m sure the listeners just cannot stand how you’re probably so excited. They can’t stand it as we’re talking about the podcast. I think we should just bill it as we’re not sure how good it’s going to be.
01:52
Tab Norris
There you go. It’s a little bit of a flyer
01:53
Tom Stanfill
It could be amazing right now. We’re just not sure. Although I will say the topic is probably one of the most important, I would even say the most important topics we will ever cover, but no one cares.
02:08
Tab Norris
Wow. That’s a strong statement. That’s not true.
02:13
Tom Stanfill
No, but it’s not something it’s not something people will search on the internet go, Hey, how do I have a better relationship? I want to have better relationships with my customers. It’s more the, the more pressing needs the stated needs are, how do I increase pipeline velocity? How do I get more meetings? How do I qualify accounts? How do I win more right away? We’re going to talk about the foundation.
02:37
Tab Norris
Yeah. Which we found Tom, I think is, it may not get all the press.
02:44
Tom Stanfill
Good word.
02:44
Tab Norris
But people that don’t do this well struggle, and people that do it well, kill it. So it does matter.
02:52
Tom Stanfill
Tab, can I give you a little Word Picture, kind of a set up our topic today in which the topic is just to be clear, we’re going to talk about how to have amazing relationships, not only with our customers, but with the people we care about the most. That’s the topic today and probably you saw that in description. So, but that’s a topic, but I wanna kind of set it up by telling a little story tab. Can I tell it? Cause I did mention we’re closing on the house today. Well, we had one contract on our house. The whole, the thing they’re talking about, everybody, is bidding so many, you get so many people looking at your house and there’s a bidding war. Well, we had actually had that happen and somebody came in well above asking price, but tab that deal fell through,
03:36
Tab Norris
Oh God, I hate it. When that happens.
03:40
Tom Stanfill
In the due diligence period, it fell through. Here’s why, because they went under the house and they looked at the foundation, right? I was all worried about what the painting, the paint, is the house painted is the house clean is, is everything decorated, not got a new door, all this stuff that you could see, ,
04:01
Tab Norris
That was important to you, but.
04:03
Tom Stanfill
Very important to me. Right. What hurt the deal was the foundation right now. It turns out the people that are buying my house. Now here, this.
04:17
Tab Norris
They’re like, wait a minute.
04:18
Tom Stanfill
No, no. We had to, we did have to get a foundation person and it was all fine and we worked it out and it’s all great. The point is you can’t overlook the foundation. That’s the point you can’t overlook. It’s not, we may not be the most pressing you, but here’s the foundation relationship determines, influence. Yeah. Let me say that again. Relationship determines influence. It’s not the goal of building a relationship. Isn’t the relationship of itself. If you’re in sales, right? The goal is if the better the relationship you have, the better influence you have, it also helps make you more fulfilled and enjoy what you do at work. It’s and let’s apply it personally tab. Are we ever happier than our relationships?
04:56
Tab Norris
Yeah. Or miserable works both ways.
05:00
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Well, you’re never happier than the, than your relationships. If your relationships are going well. Yeah, you’re doing well. If your relationships aren’t doing well,
05:07
Tab Norris
You’re doing poorly,
05:09
Tom Stanfill
Poorly. So relationships matter. We’re going to talk about how to have the most successful, fulfilling relationships with your customer. We’re gonna apply this to personally tap. Yeah. How do you feel about the topic today? Chad?
05:22
Tab Norris
I love it. I’m, I’m a big fan. I, a lot of times in my fan relationship,
05:33
Tom Stanfill
I’m a big fan. I will,
05:34
Tab Norris
You know,
05:36
Tom Stanfill
I have lots of, I’m a fan of this idea of relationship,
05:42
Tab Norris
What I do every day of my life. That’s.
05:44
Tom Stanfill
Why we call you the doctor.
05:46
Tab Norris
The doctor relates.
05:47
Tom Stanfill
To what the doctor thinks about relationships.
05:50
Tab Norris
I know I do. I’ve always been a I’ve relied heavily in my multi years of sales experience. I’ve, I’ve relied heavily upon relationships. I learned early that you can’t build relationships for return on investment. If you build relationships, you will be just fine. I mean, it’s, it really is. When people I’ve seen people try to do it kinda as a tactic.
06:21
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Like it’s Tran I call it transactional. It’s like, I’ll do these things and act like, I want to be your friend, but it’s ultimately about to get something from right.
06:28
Tab Norris
Well, and you tell him, I spent a lot of time in front of salespeople and I always ask the question, Hey, what’s the most important thing in your life. Right. And what do they always say? Yeah, my relationships, it’s not selling, it’s not this, it’s not that. Which is why I’m excited about this topic.
06:45
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And I do want to be clear. We’re going to talk about relationships, outside of, of work. Also we’re going to talk about the relationships with our customers. Some of the same principles apply the key to building relationships, which is a question I do get asked a lot, especially when I’m working with I would I call him high IQ sales organization generally sell a really on there. Like a lot of times they’re PhD, they’re scientists. They’re just really smart people, engineers. A lot of times the, and this isn’t always true, but the more intelligent they are, right? The more knowledge they have, the more they may sometimes struggle with developing relationships. It’s almost like this.
07:24
Tab Norris
Is that why we’re good at relationships.
07:32
Tom Stanfill
Some people are intelligent and they’re both as a Goldman calls it EQ versus IQ, emotional versus intelligence. It’s hard to be good at both. All those, some people are like you.
07:44
Tab Norris
And you, the unicorns of the world,
07:48
Tom Stanfill
Some people are. We’re going to talk about, so how do we do that with our customers and personally? The first thing is you need to understand what people care about the most. What, when you meet with a client again, or we can again, apply this to our personal relationships. When you meet with a client, they’re going to talk about their stated needs. The people tell you what they want to stay to me. This is what I, this is what I need, but below the surface, there’s unstated needs, right? There’s, and there’s the unstated business need, but the deepest level, the most important need that they have, what really, all this is about is their emotional needs. Like there’s nothing more important than that deep emotionally that everybody has. We talk about it is that need to be uniquely valued. Like, do people care about me?
08:34
Tom Stanfill
Do I make a difference? Do what I do matters. Dim. I noticed people will do anything to get that need met. That’s how you see people do crazy stuff because they didn’t, haven’t had that need met and they will do anything to get that. Maybe the stuff that people we could talk about burnout, we could, we have a very exciting podcast about what people have done that emotional need met. So, in some people are good at ask, hiding that need or, acting like it doesn’t matter. It matters. I remember Jim Valvano said this in a talk. He said, when you’re young, you yell to your parents or to anybody, watch me look at this, watch me. He says, when we get older, he says, our shame keeps us from asking, but we want the same thing. We just hide it. We really want, this was a no I’m talking, grabbing the mic here with that, but I’ve got to tell you this story.
09:27
Tom Stanfill
I bumped in to that point, I bumped in to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago where we kind of both on a lake house together. His is really large. And mine is really small. Matter of fact, mine’s uninhabitable and his is a palace. This guy, this guy was a great football player at tech. He, he went on to play pro for 10 years and he actually ended up becoming the head football coach in the NFL and took his team at the super bowl. This guy, I mean, he has nothing to prove. The life was measured by pyramid. I’d be way down in the pyramid. Right. But, but as I was talking to him and it was great to see him and were catching up and reliving some of the good old days, were talking about the size of football players when we played versus the size of players now and in a minute.
10:22
Tom Stanfill
It literally, almost instantly, he pulls up a picture of when he played for the jets and he showed me how big he was, Which was fine. He had that picture and he showed it to me and it’s like, and I thought, why did he do that? Why? Because he wanted me to know that he used to be really big. Like he was, he’s like, which is fine. There’s nothing. I love that. He showed me that picture. The point is here, he’s a guy that’s been on this field at the super bowl. I mean, all the stuff that he’s accomplished, he, that he wants to show me, Hey, do you see how big I was when I played for the jets? Right. And I remember Oprah Winfrey saying, she said, no matter who I have on my show, no matter who they are, how successful are the first question they asked me after the show is they say, how did I do.
11:10
Tab Norris
Exactly?
11:12
Tom Stanfill
However, how it’s almost like, am I okay? Did I do both? How did I perform? We all have that need. I know you don’t tab.
11:18
Tab Norris
Oh yeah. It’s like, it’s unbelievable how powerful it is. It like, and I struggle, like if I’m getting ready to do a seminar or speak or something like that, I’m just going, remember, because that need is so strong that you got to kind of put that aside because you want to, I want to make sure that I’m serving them and not just trying to take care of all my needs.
11:43
Tom Stanfill
Well, and you notice the, how important that need is if you’ve nor somebody or you get ignored like that. Cause sometimes if you’re doing well and you’re getting a lot of know deposits in your emotional bank account, and life’s good and your relationships are rich and you’re feeling that needs met. You’re like, it’s like having money. It’s like, I got enough money. I’m fine. But then you take it away. All of a sudden you see what really drives you. I remember being at a dinner party and I offered and this person offered, I dunno, potatoes to somebody, but I didn’t offer it to somebody else. And they’re like, what about me?
12:19
Tab Norris
I’m important to.
12:19
Tom Stanfill
You? It’s like, what did this like, it’s like, why are you not, why are you ignoring me? Like everybody has that desire. Like, do you like, just ignore somebody and see what happens? You had three people sitting and you just talked to two of them and don’t talk to one of them. They will go, what is going, like,
12:35
Tab Norris
They’ll lose their mind.
12:36
Tom Stanfill
It’s our it, because it’s our greatest need.
12:38
Tab Norris
Well, you know, I, it was funny. It reminded me of early FedEx days, Tom remember early client as Lynn and I used to go to this hotel and it was a great hotel, nothing fancy, but just a nice hotel.
12:53
Tom Stanfill
Marriott. It.
12:54
Tab Norris
Was that very out of Memphis, near the pyramid. I used to go there all the time. Cause we did a lot of training there and I, this and that. I had a great relationship there and they always treated me really well. I hadn’t been there in eight years, 10 years. I don’t know, eight years probably. I was in Memphis. So guess where I went to stay. I stayed there. I walk in, I’m checking in and the person’s checking me in. I check in hotels every week of my life. She goes, well, Mr. Norris, welcome back. It’s see, I see. It’s been a long time since you’ve been with us. I’m like, first I’m looking around like what? I’ve never had anybody say that to me in my history of checking into a hotel, this is a Marriott. It’s not like I’m at the Ritz Carlton or something.
13:34
Tab Norris
She goes, I said, well, yeah, it’s good to be back. You guys have always taken good care of me. She goes, well, listen, we’re so glad you’re here. By the way, we just want to have Cindy up a little something. Thank you for coming back and seeing us and like either a, a cocktail or a dessert. And I’m like, well, I love bourbon. She goes, we’re going to send you up a bourbon. She goes, and by the way, you can’t tip us. Thank you for coming back. I thought I was the king of the universe. I didn’t know I had a need for that, but I did. I want to be special. I felt amazing.
14:09
Tom Stanfill
Versus like the lady that I waited on me at the barbecue restaurant a couple of days ago, where I go, I looked at her. I said, Hey, the macaroni and cheese is cold and I didn’t order beans. I ordered Brunswick. And this is what she did. She looked at me and she just took the plate away.
14:28
Tab Norris
She didn’t say a.
14:28
Tom Stanfill
Word. Then she brought it back. There was Brunswick stew instead. The macaroni and cheese was still cold. It didn’t say a word. I just feel like, why does that bother me? Why don’t I just say, Hey, the macaroni she used to call. It’s like, it’s like, why are you ignoring me when I always ask the question? How long have you been in customer service?
14:49
Tab Norris
Yeah.
14:50
Tom Stanfill
But, but the way that we feel, whether it’s a transaction like that or a relationship, I should say like that. Funny, I’ve had some of the same experiences, that same Marriott where I remember literally I still remember the waiter and what he looked like, because I would have breakfast every morning. Cause we would be there for weeks at a time. And he knew my family. He knew about me. He knew where I lived and knew what I liked. And like, and I liked the guy. Why did I like the guy? Because he was noticing me, he met my needs. He’s like, you’re, you are important enough for me to remember who you are and care about you. That, and the reason we’re talking about this is because that’s all you need to know. Right. To have relationships is focus on that emotional need. What we typically do is we’re like, well, I am, I, I have my emotional need.
15:34
Tom Stanfill
Can I get you to meet that? The other people were going well, I have my emotional need. They’re like, well, can you beat that? We just kind of fight for the spotlight. We’re so consumed with ours that we forget about theirs. Yeah. Let’s talk about what we teach tab about how to meet that emotional need. You obviously teach us all the time, but we have a little model that we talk about it as a called ser more right. Serve. More, more means more than they expect. We’ll talk about three ways that we can serve the people in our lives. More. Whether again, it’s customers or it’s people in our lives. It’s my wife, my, my significant other, my children serve more to explain that tab.
16:17
Tab Norris
Well, the way we like to think about it is we’re going to serve more. Yeah. It’s, it’s a progression. I like to think about it is you. If you’re going to pull this off, you start by caring more. You got to care more because if you don’t care more, you’re not going to do anything. You’ve got to actually look at that customer, that prospect, that person is more than someone that’s going to meet your needs more than a commission. Check more than that. Because if you don’t, you’re not going to go to the next stage, which is, if you gotta care more than you learn more because if you care, then you’re going to want to learn. I want to figure out like your preferences, what you care about, what your personality style. I want to learn more about you, which then leads us to what matters, which is the do more.
17:08
Tab Norris
Now I can do more than you expect to make you go, wow, this is not normal. We were talking about a stinking Marriott that I had. I want to meet the manager of that Marriott. I mean, that’s amazing. You and I both had that kind of experience. That’s amazing.
17:25
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You can build the systems around that, but it has to be executed by humans and how she treated. You can communicate that she cares. Like you can have a problem and people deal with your problem. They can, you can tell that they’re saying the words, but they don’t care.
17:39
Tab Norris
Yes. That’s it. And that’s it. It’s a great, and by, I mean, I share this model with tons of people, whether it’s college students trying to have a better lives in college or whether it’s my children or my wife or I’m, just, it’s just, this is just absolute truth.
17:55
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I like, let’s talk about the care more piece too. I’d like to unpack that because I think of it in this way. I either look at the person as it’s either a transactional relationship or transactional situation, I’m like focused on what needs to happen versus who am I talking to? And I’ll give you a personal example. Like my daughter she’s driving the car. She should, she was drinking. Shouldn’t be driving and drinking. She has a wreck. Yeah. Right, right. What, what am I looking? The outcome I’m looking for is you shouldn’t be doing that. And so let’s deal with that. Like, this is what this is. I don’t like what happened. Yeah. Right. Let’s focus on what you didn’t do or what you should have done, what you agreed to do versus are you okay? Like, is my relationship with you dependent upon how well you follow the rules and how well you saved me from spending money on things I don’t want to spend or making me stay up late at night or what I’m afraid of, or is it, I care more about you than I do about all of that other stuff.
19:02
Tom Stanfill
Like, is there a human being and in sales, our customer, it’s like, it’s, is this about a commission? Is this everything I’m doing? Because, because motive is ultimately transparent. Like, so if this is about how do I get you to, how do I treat you a certain way? So I’m going to get more money. People smell that.
19:19
Tab Norris
Yeah. I sit on the leadership side too. I know we have sales leaders that joined this call, this podcast. And it’s the same thing. I watched coaches treat their people like a transaction. We got to do the same thing. It’s the same exact truth. They’re not a translator. They’re not a means to an end. They’re a person they’re a human being. They know if you care about them or you don’t and they read right through it.
19:47
Tom Stanfill
And that’s what meets our greatest need. It’s like if I, I mean, you’ve been managers, some of us have had leaders that we work for, that we would do anything for. I remember my coach, my bill Curry. I would do anything for that, man, because I could tell he actually cared for me. I’ve had other managers, leaders that I’ve worked for, like my first job. The guy could care less, who I was, all he was trying to do is come up with some technique to get me to sell more. He’d come up with a, Hey, let’s go buy a BMW. I’m like, well, I don’t need to buy a BMW. I got four kids. And I was like, it’s like Bobby. His philosophy was, if I get you more in debt, you’ll have to sell more. About me. He’s like, he wasn’t like, who are you?
20:24
Tom Stanfill
What do you care about? What are you trying to do? How do I kind of motivate you? What’s important to you. I don’t care about you. I’m trying to get you to help me sell more. Because if you sell more than I can sell this and I can make more money and blah, blah. And now he doesn’t care. So I love that. First of all, you gotta, you got to care more and look at the human being beyond who are they? How are they doing? What’s happening with them beyond the situation. And then I love to learn more. I think of a tab as a file folder.
20:54
Tab Norris
That’s good.
20:55
Tom Stanfill
I think if it is like, when I think of have a meeting with somebody that I’ve chosen to serve, we’re going to talk about that in . I don’t want to, it’d be interested to see if you think of it this way. I have, I guess I think of it, literally. I visualize a file folder. I have their name on it and it’s some people I have notes. Right. I pull out their file folder and they tell me something and I put it in the file folder.
21:17
Tab Norris
Yeah.
21:18
Tom Stanfill
You know, do they like coffee? Do they not like coffee? You know, how does mark like coffee? How do you like coffee? You’re easy. You know, what did I, you know? I put, because I care more about them. Why does my daughter, why is my daughter doing certain things? What is, what goes in that file folder? Can that she can’t remember to brush her teeth, does that because she’s add or because she’s being, she’s just being difficult or she’s, whatever I do. I know her. Do I understand what she cares about same, probably more better example is my wife. Yes.
21:53
Tab Norris
Well I’ve well, that’s, that was a big aha for me. I know your, your IQ or IQ is much higher than mine. I had to learn this the hard way, banging my face against the wall, because that’s what with her, I just, when we first got married, I would just buy gifts and do things for her that I didn’t realize it. Just what I liked. What I’d never did is I never really learned about her. I didn’t really, I cared about her, but I didn’t, I, I didn’t learn. And so I just kept going. I’m trying, I’m I want to take, do picnics and take little trips and do little things. I’m like, you don’t seem to really like this. And she goes, yeah, I really don’t. I’m like, well, that’s not good. I’m doing it for you. She goes, no, you’re doing it for you.
22:35
Tab Norris
And I was like, oh. We ended up doing the five love languages. We came up and it turns out my number one was quality time, therefore like picnics and going to New York city and walking into the park and just, guess she’s acts of service. So now.
22:55
Tom Stanfill
She wants you to.
22:56
Tab Norris
Do you know what really? Yeah. When I cleaned the garage without her asking, oh my that’s better than flowers. It’s like, it just it’s trains. I know that’s a silly example, but that’s exactly what we’re talking about. That’s the file folder. You can continue sticking things in there. You really know how to do more and meet this need. So,
23:16
Tom Stanfill
That’s what sends the message that the person that emotional need of being uniquely valued is that you think about your customers and you go, first of all, I’m going to look at you beyond a commission. Like, who are you? What do you do after work? What do you care about? What’s your life like what’s happening. What’s important to you. Again, I like to think about as uniquely valued, they’re unique and you need to, they think you need to value their, God’s put them on this planet for a reason.
23:43
Tab Norris
You.
23:43
Tom Stanfill
See them. And do you understand that? Do you want to get to know that? You care about that, then you learn more about them. Like, I think the little things, like you’re saying make a big difference. Like, I think about, I thought about this the other day related to this is ice cream. Like what kind of ice cream do you like? Like, do you like ice cream? Something really simple like that. My wife knows, I don’t like Sherbert. She loves Sherbert.
24:10
Tab Norris
Okay.
24:10
Tom Stanfill
So I like,
24:11
Tab Norris
It, Sherbert is like, oh yeah,
24:16
Tom Stanfill
Like I see kind of, I like creamy. She likes IC. She bought Haagen-Dazs strawberry ice cream, which I love it’s creamy, very creamy. I also don’t like eating it hard and in the little cup or whatever, they’re.
24:29
Tab Norris
So high,
24:31
Tom Stanfill
I’m not demanding. I’m just saying,
24:34
Tab Norris
I know what I like.
24:36
Tom Stanfill
I like it. I like it soft. I’ve put it on a little plate and you take a fork and I smash it so that it’s like soft serve. I thought.
24:43
Tab Norris
I knew you. I don’t even know.
24:44
Tom Stanfill
You. I know this is why we’re having the podcast. It’s a you’ll meet. So they’ll give you ice cream. She brings me ice cream the other night, like that the, my life I’m like, love.
24:59
Tab Norris
Your wife.
25:00
Tom Stanfill
I’m like, this is amazing. Like, this is okay. I’m like, you must really care about me. It’s like, if I buy her a purse and I know what kind of strap she likes, and she likes to put it on her shoulder and she, what size she does and how she uses her pur, like she goes, you must really care about you must, I must mean something to you. So that’s the message we’re sending to.
25:21
Tab Norris
The example. I got an example for sales. If that’s, if you want to hear it, I mean. A true story for me. I’ve had a client I’m very relational person. You may be shocked by that. I really, I liked, I like to go to dinner, like with a client, I just inherited a new account. This was the senior person that I was going to be working with. And all that. I’d always just heard that this person was tough. Watch out, you’re bad to survive. I’m like, that’s not gonna work for me. I’m going to be, I’m going to win this person over. I, I, I call them and I’m coming out and like, Hey, I’m coming out. I’m really looking forward to kind of taking over this account. I really liked to take you and your team out to dinner. I think it would be great just to get to know each other kind of, just have a couple of beers.
26:18
Tab Norris
Wait, we can just have a couple beers. We don’t have to do dinner, but whatever you guys want to do, I’d love to do that. He goes, let me be real clear. That will never happen. And I’m like, whoa, okay. Here’s the way. Here’s the way I like it. I work in a way that I’m going to give you 41 to give you about an hour, maybe twice a year. We worked through what we need to work through and we’ll get it done. I know your number. I’ll take care of you. I mean, I’ll reach out to you when I need something. That’s the way this is going to work. Okay. That was, guess what? I started now that I knew that I worked with him in a very different way. It worked, the relationship got better because I actually adjusted. If I hadn’t to learn that, I hadn’t figured that out.
27:13
Tab Norris
I learned it, maybe by, but it doesn’t matter. You learn .
27:19
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. It’s more the fact that you can’t be perfect when you, especially as you’re starting to get to know a customer. But the fact is you’re learning. What’s important to them because we tend to build relationships. Like we like people to work with us. We’re like, oh, we, we relational go to dinner. This is how you, some people are more relational. Some people more tasks. Some people like details. Some people don’t, some people want big picture. Some people like bullets, whatever they like, however they work. It’s the idea that I’m going to adjust to you because I know you, I care about you. I want to do what’s important to you versus I don’t, Hey, listen, I’m the, I’m the hero of this story. We’re going to try to do it my way.
27:54
Tab Norris
Yeah. We do dinner when I come out.
27:58
Tom Stanfill
Good luck with that. Again, if you want a relationship, that’s not how it works.
28:03
Tab Norris
Right.
28:04
Tom Stanfill
That’s not, it that’s a great example tab. Let’s talk about, do more. Yeah. Like I always think about, if we talked about the birthday stuff, that’s kind of an easy example of where you do more. Like you give people more than they expect on their brand. Again, the key is more than they expect. I think probably what has more impact is what you write on the card, like the personal, like here’s the card that said it was already filled out by somebody else. I, and they sign their name versus a specific things in the card that like, okay, that you must know me or that took time or that whatever it is, that means a lot to them that they don’t expect. That’s the, where that’s the do, because the care leads to learn and learn leads to do. Because if you just do like you’re talking about birthday.
29:01
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.
29:03
Tab Norris
Well.
29:04
Tom Stanfill
With your wife, you’re like, you’re just doing, you probably just skipped the kid, the learn you.
29:10
Tab Norris
Learn.
29:11
Tom Stanfill
It. It all has. It all works together.
29:13
Tab Norris
Yeah. Well, remember you may blasts from the past, remember Vernon, Bookman. I’m sure he’s listening. I’m sure he’s listening to this podcast. And if he is, we miss you.
29:24
Tom Stanfill
Yes.
29:25
Tab Norris
But I learned this from him. I was, he was down in Savannah and I was staying with him and we had done a couple of sales calls and he grabs a, we’re having a, he had a formal cocktail hour at five o’clock, ? There was martinis at five and we put our ass got so. And you know, it was funny. I’m like, well, we didn’t do this. Right. I grew up. Anyway, so we’re sitting there sipping a cocktail and he pulls out and he’s got his own personal stationary and he’s writing to, he wrote two handwritten, thank you notes to clients, to prospects and sealed them up. And I’m like, what are you doing? He goes, oh, I do this every day. I make sure that’s trigger. I, if I’m going to get my cocktail, I have to write at least two handwritten notes to somebody I’m trying to connect with a potential customer.
30:12
Tom Stanfill
That’s amazing. And I.
30:12
Tab Norris
Thought, yeah, that was, I thought that was really cool. I’m of course, I’ve been saying, I’m going to do that myself, but I still have done it. I love that because that’s a perfect example. What we’re talking about.
30:24
Tom Stanfill
Know, he’s.
30:24
Tab Norris
Just doing more. It’s just a little.
30:26
Tom Stanfill
Thing,
30:27
Tab Norris
Literally five, it took him four minutes.
30:30
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I’ve seen, I’ve seen people have a tremendous impact on our relationship because they gave somebody a package of eminence. Like it’s because they knew what kind of m&ms. I liked, they thought of them because something happened. They were aware of that. It happened. And, and it’s like, like, because I’m closing on my house today, Sandy reaches out saying that it works at Azlan. She texts me and says, I’m excited about it. She, she kind of says some things in the texts that she knows it’s going to be hard for us to move from our home where we have all the grandkids around the pool. Now we’re moving town and all, she knows that she’s not like, oh, it’s strengthens the relationship. It’s like, and it’s sincere. That’s the thing. It can’t be fake, but it’s doing more than somebody. I don’t expect you to remember.
31:17
Tom Stanfill
I don’t expect you to care. I don’t expect you. When you do man, and I’ll tell you, it is so easy to beat the competition. Now, if you just show up, most people just are so inward focused and it’s just easy to outwork the competition. Cause nobody’s really doing anything.
31:36
Tab Norris
No. And I learned this through the pandemic. I mean, I don’t, this client, I’m not gonna tell you who it is, but it’s a good client of ours. They were really crushed.
31:47
Tom Stanfill
They.
31:47
Tab Norris
Got crushed in the band. I mean, like you’re talking about major. And they were really struggling. I basically went to them and just said, I just want you to know I’m here. I will give you my time. I’m not going to charge you. If we need to work something out for this, I won’t charge you. I’m going to send you some things. Just really, and they were just blown away by that. They were just like, why are you doing this? I said, well, because you guys are, we have a partnership. I care about you. I want you to make it. We’ll get back in business someday. Maybe two years, maybe five years. I don’t know. But, and who cares? I’m saying I’m doing it from the past as for a past relationship, but I just want to help. Literally for two years we got no money, nothing.
32:31
Tab Norris
We didn’t get anything. I just thought, you know what? They probably will never come back the way they did this year. You know what I’m talking about? We paid off in spades.
32:42
Tom Stanfill
Because that leads to loyalty.
32:44
Tab Norris
At least, it’s funny, this person said to me, damn, I just need to tell you nobody. We, you, she goes, we found out through the pandemic who really cared about us for real. You do. And we will have a partnership forever. A lot of people will never work with us again.
33:02
Tom Stanfill
Wow.
33:03
Tab Norris
And it was like, I had chills. I mean, because it’s like, and I, it was nothing. I mean, it was nothing. I mean, literally I just showed that I cared.
33:11
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. That’s how that is said. This is the word for the whole podcast right here as this conversation is like, when things go south or things, don’t go like you want them to go. Or when people disappoint you, I’m thinking of some things that have happened with my children or my wife or people in my family or close friends. That’s that’s when you see if people are really genuinely sincere. I always look at it as an opportunity. Like when my kids really screwed up, That was an opportunity for me to demonstrate to them that my love is real, that my love is unconditional because it’s when things are great. Everybody, of course, I’m the straight a student that’s making you look good, or I’m musician, or I’m the sports person. I’m the winner. Now I just wrecked the car. Like, I mean, what, I’m my daughter.
34:04
Tom Stanfill
And she wrote a book about this. It’s, I guess I’m free to talk about this. But my daughters showed up. We were at the football game. Her brother was the quarterback, his senior year. I think it was her sophomore year. And she shows up the football game. We’re at the Mercedes dome Mercedes back then, but it was a gorgeous dome. It just happened to be playing a high school football game in, but there’s so many people there and she walks up, I’m sitting with all my peers and she’s drunk.
34:32
Tab Norris
Oh gosh.
34:33
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I mean, she’d been drinking with her friends and she had somebody, I don’t know whatever, but she was, and it was clear that she was drunk. That was, but it was an opportunity to say, I love you regardless of your performance, regardless of what’s happening, I care about, are you okay? What is happening here? Why are you doing this? Versus this is embarrassing me. And this is about me. And I loved having those opportunities. Love is a little strong, but I appreciate it. I don’t love any of that, but I appreciated the opportunities that when she or any of my children would cross the line, whatever that meant. I can say, Hey, I love you more than your performance, more than your behavior. More than anything you can do. I think that’s what you’re saying about your clients. It’s like when somebody like the big deals on the line, I’ve been in situations like that, where there’s a big deal on the line and it’s in a really important meeting and you might need that.
35:28
Tom Stanfill
I need that deal and you can tell things aren’t going well. And it’s like, what do you do? Maybe they’re are personally not doing well. You could tell their facial or something’s up. You can just say, let’s get this thing done before you are, you can say, okay. And it reveals who you are. I love that story. I think we got a close tab with the couple of just important cleanup points here, because we’re getting to talk about kind of what we’re not saying. Cause I think the question that I always, I asked my, I have to check this in filter this thought because it’s a, it’s a, it’s a legitimate thought. I think everybody has to face this question. Well, what about me? Right. We’re talking about, serve more about my needs. I have emotional needs. I have, I have financial needs. What about me.
36:25
Tab Norris
And a dog? That’s what I always say.
36:29
Tom Stanfill
Well, how am I going to, like, if I’m out serving everybody, if I’m centered, right. I’m focused, my focus is on serve more. What about me? And, and here’s what I strongly believe. If you have more, if you have an unconditional approach to serving other people versus a transactional, meaning I will do it for you if you do it for me. It’s like, it’s all transactional versus unconditional. Like I’m just going to, I’m in like, I’m going to, I know, I’ve, I firmly believe, and I’ve seen this play out. I’m 60 years old. I’ve seen this play out over and over again. The people that have this unconditional approach to relationships and of this serve more mentality. Those people have the best relationships, the richest life and their needs are met. They don’t know where it’s coming from. They don’t always know where the needs are, but they, you have less control, but you have better and richer relationships and you have more love in your life.
37:27
Tab Norris
It’s one of those things you can’t put into spreadsheet.
37:30
Tom Stanfill
No. One of the ways that I, I try to explain it as I think about something really simple, like the tail, I think of the tale of two waiters. There’s, you have these waiters, if you’ve ever, you, everybody goes to restaurants and you have the waiter or that’s like, I’ve been screwed before. I served these big crowds and I get chipped for the tip. I’m not serving anybody, or I’ll try to, I’ll try at the end, come back and act really nice when I’ve kind of been a jerk the whole time and try to, but you can tell, it’s just like, they’re jaded. It’s like, I’ve been in the service business and people are difficult to deal with. And then there’s the, there’s the waiter. That’s like, Hey, I’m going to serve everybody the best that I can. I’m good. I don’t know where it’s coming from.
38:16
Tom Stanfill
I don’t know who’s going to tip me, but everybody’s going to get the best service. I’m going to treat everybody is a human being. Any of you sit at my table, you’re going to have the best possible experience. Who do you think gets better tips. Wow.
38:26
Tab Norris
It’s easy.
38:27
Tom Stanfill
It’s easy. Like the person that we all see the jaded person, and then they go, yeah, of course you didn’t tip. You’re like, of course we didn’t tip. I mean, it’s like, they’re there. It’s self fulfilling prophecy. If the people that freely serve are the people that get the most tips. I also think there’s another, which obviously you applies to also leads to the best relationships. It’s like, we have this generosity mindset versus the scarcity mindset. I also think there’s another critical thing and that’s we have to choose right tab. We can’t serve everybody.
39:00
Tab Norris
No. Or you don’t serve anyone. I mean, you just can’t, you can’t serve the right way. T talk just, that’s a good thing to put into our wrap up here. So how do we do that?
39:11
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And I think that’s really important. This all works because you choose who you serve. You cannot serve every button. If you think about all your you’ve got your people in your personal life, you’ve got your customers, you have prospects, you can’t serve everybody. You have to choose to cheat. As Andy Stanley says, which I love that book. You have to choose, you can’t get it all done. I’ve got to choose my family over business. I’ve got to choose certain customers over other customers. I’ve got to choose certain prospects over other prospects because that’s where it falls apart. Everybody wants something. If you try to serve everybody, you’ll serve nobody. So you have to be really diligent. Say like that client that you says, I’m going to invest in you. I’m going to, I’m choosing to serve you. I’m not going to worry about my needs.
39:54
Tom Stanfill
I’m choosing I’m all in. There’s other clients where you’re wasting time. You’ve got to pick where it’s going to be worth an investment of your time. When you choose it, then you just serve them. Like I can’t wait. Which kids going to love me back. I can’t worry about is my, is my wife gonna love me? Or is who my friend, I just got to know, this is who I’m in. This is like this I’m in. And then I just give.
40:20
Tab Norris
That’s really good. Well, it’s good because it’s interesting. Cause I picked two clients and the abandoned ones were really go all in. One was the right choice. The other was the wrong choice. I didn’t think I just picked with the knowledge that I had that I thought I’d get that made sense. I was right one, wrong on the other. I still sleep well at night and I still did the right thing, but I didn’t get any return on that. That’s okay. It’ll all pay off. Pays off.
40:43
Tom Stanfill
Well, the opposite back to the waiter example, the other option is, Hey, how can I work you to get what I want?
40:49
Tab Norris
Exactly. That’s my work.
40:52
Tom Stanfill
No, you won’t have relationships. It’s basically, it’ll all be transactional. And, and here’s the thing. When people, I heard it this way, I’ll say it, I’ll set it up this way. There’s three. C’s really your three gates that people walk through roles ultimately to buy. The first is credibility. Are you credible? Do you have a critical product? Are you credible person then there’s comfort. Am I comfortable with you?
41:13
Tab Norris
Yeah.
41:14
Tom Stanfill
Right. There, you might convinced that what you can deliver is accurate. That’s middle C comfort has a huge impact on whether you they’re going to be convinced and whether they ultimately going to work with you. The relationship is legitimate, I should say, or it’s, you’ve got a strong relationship and you approached it the way that we’re talking about people are comfortable and they tell you things, they don’t tell other people, they’re more loyal. They listen to you when you go to communicate to them about what it is that you offer.
41:50
Tab Norris
That’s good.
41:52
Tom Stanfill
All right. Tab. Any other last parting shot.
41:55
Tab Norris
I’m going to, yes. I’m going to wrap it up with, but were really wrong saying this was not going to be a great podcast. I’m just going to say you were wrong. You were wrong. You came in really hot and strong on this is going to be added. Just adequate. I thought it was fabulous. I really, I wrote, I learned some things. I mean, I w whenever I learned things, I feel like other people probably learned things. So.
42:20
Tom Stanfill
I got, I always learn when I’m with you tab, and by the way, you are the king of relationships. So, you know, I’m model you. I think about how to treat other people. So,
42:29
Tab Norris
It’s funny you say that I don’t, I can better, it’s like, I don’t, it’s always challenging to hear this because I don’t think you arrive. Like, God, I don’t serve that. I don’t do enough for that person.
42:44
Tom Stanfill
Every day. I.
42:44
Tab Norris
Blow it every day. I don’t, I don’t care enough. I don’t learn enough. I don’t do enough. And I want to do more. So I think.
42:51
Tom Stanfill
It’s funny. I think about it while on the way, driving in today and thinking about this podcast, I thought of Angie five.
42:58
Tab Norris
Oh.
42:59
Tom Stanfill
I thought about this idea of transactional versus unconditional. I, she was one of our first big clients. We worked with her for years, multiple clients. I lost touch with her and that’s my fault. I w and I, I, I hate to think that she believes that our relationship was purely based on the work that were doing, but, as time went on and she’s in Phoenix and, we quit working together. I just quit following up with her. And I hate that. I did that. I’ve tried to reach out to her a couple of times, but I get the feeling like she thinks, oh, I was just a client. And, and she actually means more to me than just being a client. I, so I know I’ve blown it. I know I’ve blown it with people are listening to that. They know me and they’ve worked with me.
43:46
Tom Stanfill
I’d probably blown it with them, but I knew ultimately I keep coming back to, if I choose to move from a transactional to an unconditional, and I choose well, and I serve more, I’m going to have richer relationships. It’s like you said, it’s an ongoing process.
44:04
Tab Norris
Sounds good. Great.
44:07
Tom Stanfill
Again, thanks everyone for joining us for another episode, please give us feedback, like us. If you like us, if you don’t like us, just go listen to other people’s podcasts… or give us and give us some comments we’d love to hear from you and how we can serve you better. So, thanks again for joining us for another episode of SALES with ASLAN.
