Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.
The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.
The following are notes from Ep. 127 – Speaking Made Simple – Mastering a Sales Presentation
In this episode, Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris interview master communicator and keynote speaker Kelly Talamo. To help you nail your next presentation, Kelly shares what he has learned in his 30+ years of standing on stages. He talks about his secrets to preparation, stage fright, nailing down your core message and how to keep the audience engaged.
Listen to the conversation here:
Or check out the summary and full transcript below.
Summary:
As salespeople, a large part of our role involves speaking with many different people every single day, and often, this means giving large sales presentations. So we’d better get good at it.
Even if you’re not afraid of public speaking, maybe you’re unsure of how to adequately prepare? Or maybe you’re afraid of boring your audience? Are you doing everything you can to nail down your message and deliver it in front of a group?
We sat down with master communicator and keynote speaker, Kelly Talamo, to get his insights on the secrets to preparation, stage fright, nailing down your core message, and how to keep the audience engaged. Kelly shared with us what he has learned in his 30+ years of standing on stages, to help you nail your next presentation, whether you’re speaking to a group of five or five hundred.
“I only get nervous if I’m not prepared,” Kelly told us.
Kelly’s Framework for Preparation
- Discover
- Design
- Deliver
Resources:
- Check out the full blog post on our conversation with Kelly
- Find more about Kelly Talamo on his website
Transcript:
Tom Stanfill
Welcome to another episode of sales with ASLAN. I’m your host, Tom Stanfill with my sidekick and best co-host in the podcast business. Mr. Tab Norris.
00:26
Tab Norris
Thanks, Tom. Always a pleasure.
00:31
Tom Stanfill
And you look great. You look really good today. I don’t know. I don’t know. I like the ensemble.
00:37
Tab Norris
Thank you.
00:38
Tom Stanfill
Tab. I may be more excited today about our, our, this could hurt some of our other guests. This could hurt their feelings, but I may be more excited about this guest today than I’ve ever been about any guest. I hope none of our previous guests heard that it’s up there.
00:57
Tab Norris
I’m going to be right there with you because this guest, the three of us, have spent some quality time together many, many years ago, the early days of ASLAN traveling the roads of this United States of America. And we had some amazing experiences. So I’m in agreement with you. It’s going to be fantastic to hear from Kelly.
01:17
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, so we are we, so jumping Jill, just jump in Kelly. Talamo is in the building. He is our, he is our guest on, on sales with Angela today. We have invited Kelly onto the podcast because he is one of the most extraordinary communicators, speakers, motivational speaker. He loves that term motivational speaker. We’re going to, we’re going to, he loves.
01:42
Tab Norris
That.
01:43
Tom Stanfill
He loves that. He loves that sketch on Saturday night, live about the motivational speaker down by the river. He loves that loves to be a with it, but no seriously, Kelly is really one of the best communicators, especially on stage that I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen him speak to thousands. I’ve seen him speak to hundreds. I’ve seen him speak the three and he is just phenomenal. Today tab, we’re going to talk about,
02:10
Tab Norris
Yeah, we are. Here’s our, here’s our title for today.
02:18
Tab Norris
Very formal speaking, made easy with Kelly T what do you think? I kind of like,
02:25
Kelly Talamo
I think I would like it better if it was made simple. Oh,
02:30
Tab Norris
Simple. You’re right. Simple. The goal is to share tips on speaking to groups of five or thousands. So that’s what we’re going to do. Like you, Tom, I have seen him do amazing things and I’m always, every time I hear him speak, I’m like, dang, he’s good. I’m picking up a tip or two every single time. So, yeah.
02:51
Kelly Talamo
And that’s fine. I think you guys know you’re two of my favorite people on the planet and we have amazing history. Like it’s incredible. And, and it’s all good history too. I can’t even think about one or two rubs that we’ve ever had. I mean, there,
03:08
Tom Stanfill
I don’t know if I’ve ever said this to you, Kelly, but there is of a rub.
03:13
Tab Norris
Yeah. There’s a perfect venue.
03:16
Tom Stanfill
Glad you brought that up because.
03:27
Tom Stanfill
Well, here, it’s relevant to the topic today. Tab, aren’t you a little upset or frustrated when Kelly gets the score. Kelly sometimes will deliver when he’s not available. When he’s not speaking across the world on major stages and coaching and doing huge events, he’s will sometimes deliver workshops for us. I often am replaced by Kelly if I’m ever on a project and be like, no, I don’t want you anymore, Tom. I want Kelly. Especially at our friends at American airlines, I was very much embedded in that project, delivering several workshops. And then Kelly comes in. It’s like, what will we really? This is, I’m not making this up, but could you, can we have Kelly, not you? I’m a little upset about that, but I’m going to get past.
04:18
Tab Norris
People were crying in his workshops and they weren’t trying.
04:22
Kelly Talamo
I have that effect, I guess.
04:25
Tom Stanfill
Oh, seriously. Love having you Kelly. I really was excited about you joining us and sharing what you have learned about being an incredible communicator. So, so let’s just talk about your experiences kind of lead with how did it first happen for you? What was your first big opportunity to speak, whether it was to a room of 10 or was it a big audience? Was it over a hundred people with what was about what, tell us about your first opportunities. Yeah,
04:57
Kelly Talamo
Well, it was in the eighties when I was kind of new to Christian circles. I, I got asked to speak at a couple of give your testimony, those kinds of little things, and they all, they always went well. I did that off and on for, I think, five or six years and then moved to Atlanta. When I was in Atlanta, I was in a small group with my pastor and were at a fairly large church, Roswell and Roswell, like a thousand people. His father passed away suddenly on a Wednesday night. He called my house on a Wednesday night and he said, I need you to speak Sunday.
05:41
Tom Stanfill
Whoa. Yeah. In front of a thousand people, you went from sharing in small groups to like a thousand people.
05:49
Kelly Talamo
It’s.
05:49
Tab Norris
A real sermon.
05:52
Tom Stanfill
Bible and stuff. Yeah.
05:55
Kelly Talamo
Oh. He said, I want you to talk on the beauty of death because his father had just passed away suddenly and he needed somebody to fill. And it was Wednesday night. I said, oh, w I mean, I hesitated, but I did say, well, I’m a little confused because you have five pastors on staff. Like, why don’t you just call down? He said, because they’re not ready and you’re learning.
06:32
Tom Stanfill
Wow.
06:34
Kelly Talamo
Well, did.
06:35
Tom Stanfill
You know you were ready?
06:37
Kelly Talamo
No, I know. For him to think I was catapulted me. Right. Then, and this is kind of how my career has gone. I studied and I did my homework and he wanted a positive spin on death. He was not sad about his father dying, as he had those beliefs. It was over, I had been trying for two years to get time with Pat Macmillan, one of the top team building consultants, people in the Atlanta area. He has a firm called Triaxial Partners. I actually landscaped his yard because that’s what I was doing at the time I was in the lane.
07:26
Tom Stanfill
You went from landscaping to like…
07:29
Kelly Talamo
I did. I was actually in Pat’s yard and we would go to breakfast and lunch and he would always tell me these consultive tips, like build your message and those kinds of things, those corporate and things that you supposed to know. I, at the service I delivered and then the, but I never could make any headway with pat. He was always build your message. He always put me off . And at the service, I said, amen. I came down from the stage and he was at the bottom of the stage and he said, Kelly, you’ve got communication skills. We could leverage. I’ve been trying to tell you that anyway. And he goes my office Wednesday. That was, and he would teach me these little baby team-building modules to deliver in factories. I asked him, I said, well, why am I delivering it? He said, well, they’re blue collar workers and they’ll kill me.
08:41
Kelly Talamo
They’ll destroy relate to these people. I’m going to teach you the principles on Wednesday. That following Monday, you will deliver them. And, and he said, and if we do well, if you, if you, if you, this client is pleased, we have 10 more factories that to do. So this was like the beginning. And, and yes. And so that’s how got,
09:08
Tom Stanfill
That’s kind of where you guys, so you went from your own landscaping business. If I remember correctly, you got invited by the pastor. Now you’re speaking in church that went well, Pat Macmillan hires you to then facilitate workshops for a manufacturer. Kind of that launches, you kind of move forward so our audience can get a feel for kind of where you are now. You now do keynote addresses for companies with how many gimme, give us some as the audience size of an organization.
09:41
Kelly Talamo
That’d be…
09:41
Tom Stanfill
I know we’ve done some together…
09:42
Kelly Talamo
Yeah. Yeah. In February coming up, I’ll be doing the national convention for Pegasus residential. There’ll be like 350 in the audience.
09:53
Tom Stanfill
350 people. Awesome. I’ve been with you. There’ve been, you’ve done major. I don’t know the largest ones, but I know over a thousand. So, so tell us, how did you cause this back to the, whether you want to talk about your first sermon or talk, or your typical talks that you give, how do you overcome stage fright? How do you get past that? I’ve MB what comes to mind is cause you, I mean, when you are going to have to preach on the beauty of death, I would be terrified. I don’t know if that’s something you probably would, that would be easy for you.
10:32
Tab Norris
It’s was frightened, my sweet spot. I mean, I’m really kind of a chill guy, so, but there are topics I would have stage fright about. So you are exactly right. Like maybe clothing or some kind of environmental,
10:46
Kelly Talamo
I guess, I guess I’m just,
10:48
Tom Stanfill
How did you, how did you, like, how do you do that? How do you, cause I’ve seen you at many situation where I go that’s intimidating. How do you get over? How do you become yourself in such an awkward environment? How do you, is there any tips for us to, whether we’re making a presentation to, a room of five and lots on the line? We get nervous or anytime where that spotlight comes on and we’re like dance.
11:12
Kelly Talamo
Yeah. Yeah. Now, so I will, I will say this though. I’m do not want to get the impression that I do not get excited.
11:22
Tom Stanfill
I.
11:22
Kelly Talamo
Do get excited and I only get nervous if I’m not prepared. Someone says to me, Hey man, I, I really am petrified of public speaking. I always say, well, actually you should be. Also like why I said, because if you don’t know that you have something to say for the audience that’s in front of you, whether it’s three, 300, you should be nervous because you are invading one of the most incredible places that a person has where they actually sit down to listen to you. Yeah. We assume that’s going to go on a one-on-one that there w we both know all of us know that’s not always the case, that people are really there to listen to you. I answer this question, I want you to know something I grew into. We’re talking about 25 years, 30, probably 30 years. It is. So, but I think when I realized, first of all, that the whole idea of the stage was not about me.
12:40
Kelly Talamo
That was a turning point.
12:42
Tab Norris
That’s.
12:42
Kelly Talamo
Huge, not about me. And then that’s a mindset. Okay. There’s really, as I’ve studied stage fright and tried to get people to read things about stage fright, there’s two orientations that a person can have. Would you like to hear these two things?
12:59
Tab Norris
I love things in twos or threes. So.
13:01
Kelly Talamo
One is called a performance orientation, which means that you view public speaking as something that requires a special skill. You see the role of an audience as a judge, who’s constantly evaluating the presenter you are.
13:17
Tab Norris
Oh,
13:18
Kelly Talamo
Yes. That’s a performance. Excuse me.
13:21
Tab Norris
That’s really good.
13:23
Kelly Talamo
Orientation.
13:25
Tab Norris
That’s how I look at it. Me too.
13:26
Kelly Talamo
Okay. Contrast a communication orientation means that the main focus is on expressing your ideas and presenting information or telling a story in such a way that, the audience will benefit. It’s very simply, it’s a self-centered versus an other centered approach.
13:50
Tab Norris
Gosh, that’s good.
13:51
Kelly Talamo
Okay. For people with a communication orientation, the objective is to get through the audience the same way they got through people doing an everyday conversation. For me, it’s just a conversation with 2000.
14:10
Tab Norris
Yeah. Well, you said something that that’s really good. Kelly, you said something it’s begging this question is what is your framework for preparing? Because you just said the way you take away some nervousness and feel confident and is to be prepared. Do you have any tips or, any ideas around best practices around prep?
14:35
Kelly Talamo
Okay. For me, if, if someone went to the, my website and said, looked up public speaking, you would see a little three minute video clip. And this is how I prepare. I have three stage process discover, design, and deliver. The first thing I do is I discover what is it, what problem is this? What is it that the person that talks to me about speaking their, what is it that they’re trying to solve? They call me for, because they have a problem they’re trying to solve. They want to implement a change, or they want to spread some news, or they want people excited about something, or they want to understand a concept, but there was a problem. Once I understand that, so just like in sales, my first step is to get a discovery meeting because if I don’t do that, I don’t know what the heck I shouldn’t even be talking.
I mean, really, and see again, it’s like, well, I got so much to say, but it doesn’t matter if the, if the client’s not interested, what good is all your information? So, so I did a discovery meeting. I discover what it is and ask questions. Like, for example, what is, if your people could walk away saying one thing about this time, what would it be saying or doing one thing I, that is a home run question.
Because a lot of times people don’t even, they don’t think about it. Yeah.
16:11
Tom Stanfill
I think that’s so critical Kelly. Because when we’re talking about a sales role, we have so many things we can talk about. And it’s so hard to narrow. Time is the villain, because we just have limited time. We can’t talk about everything. Well, we’re given 45 minutes, we’re given an hour. We lose some of that time because we start late or somebody leaves, or, and it’s like, how do we triage down to this one thing that we’re going to say, they leave with this one idea. That’s, that’s huge. That takes a lot of pressure off to deliver one thing, maybe two, but, or maybe even three, but it’s not 20, it’s not 10.
16:51
Kelly Talamo
Yep. There needs to really just be one overarching.
16:55
Tom Stanfill
Pick one thing.
16:57
Kelly Talamo
It’s just, yeah. And that’s the controlling idea of that particular speech. Like, for example, in Aslan, everything that we teach at Aslan, everything has to me. Okay. We’ve never talked about this, that you may even disagree about your own company, but there is, to me, there is one controlling idea whether you’re doing a catalyst workshop or a sales workshop, anything that has like, there is one controlling idea and that is you can be more successful and more fulfilled when, if your other center,
17:36
Tom Stanfill
I agree. The listening that’s really true. That’s exactly how we say it. You’ll be more fulfilled and more successful if you serve.
17:46
Kelly Talamo
Right.
17:47
Tom Stanfill
Or Other-Centered.
17:48
Kelly Talamo
So, but if I go in with a performance orientation and I’m thinking every word they’re judging every word I’m, can you just imagine how far that distances me from real content that might help because it’s all about me.
18:06
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.
18:07
Kelly Talamo
I’m on turn the right way. Am I, am I moving too much? Am I moving my hands too much? All those things you do need to work on, right? Because when, until you see yourself on video, you have no idea how bad you are,
18:21
Tom Stanfill
But, but it can be, it’s just too distracting if we’re comfortable. We have some gaps in our delivery, even, but if we’re comfortable because we’re focused on this one idea, people are going to be, it’s going to resonate with people. Just like if were sitting down at lunch with them and telling them that one idea, they’re not going to be too worried about, if we did our hand gestures, a little weird or whatever, we could do better… but it’s still the message is you’re going to deliver.
18:50
Tab Norris
You just nailed it. If you’re, if you have a performance orientation, that’s not true. You’re everything. That’s all about those details. It’s all about that. If you’re given grace, you openly or about serving the people that show up, and it’s not about you and it’s about them, there’s grace. You can go tighten it up and they still took a ton away from it. I’ve seen not that you have gaps with the other pieces, but that’s what people feel. They feel like it was all about them.
19:23
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You were real and authentic, which is what draws people now is this authentic, not super polished marketing hype. Are you real? Like you come across as like, I’m just here and I’m just going to share some truth with you. Okay. So, so let’s move to D that’s discover then what is it? What we’ve got to figure out, this one thing is one problem. One need they have, which will drive your one controlling idea. If I’m getting that right. You move to design, what do we need to know about design?
19:55
Kelly Talamo
Okay. It comes down for design that’s, to me where the hardest work is, because now I have to study, maybe look up some, do some research, dig in for a story, but it all has to fall under the controlling idea. If I don’t do that, I’m, I am immediately distancing myself from the audience. I, I, I begin with maybe a little outline. This is how I want to open. I would you, would you guys agree? Well, let me just ask this question to set this up. Do you have more trouble beginning or ending a presentation?
20:45
Tab Norris
Always beginning.
20:47
Tom Stanfill
I would second that second would be ending. In the middle is the easier part. The beginning is by far the most difficult when I first stand up there and it’s just such an, to me, an awkward environment where when you stand on and even if you just walk in a room with 10 people or five people, and they’re like, okay, do your thing. Go, go. It’s like, it’s not like the comedian thing. It’s like, okay. Be funny. Yeah. They just stare at you, like be funny. And you’re like, I’m not funny. Now. I was funny a minute ago. I’m not funny now.
21:22
Tab Norris
I’ll never forget the first time I had it. It was the Hughes thousands of people. I don’t even know how many, but that’s not my sweet spot. That’s Tom, can you guys do that? Me, I love my groups of 20 to 30, but I was asked to speak at this big national convention. They asked me for my walkup music. Oh, I have to have a walk-up music. It was like, I thought back in black, maybe too strong. I didn’t want to go with that. I don’t even know what I went with, but so you walking through the crowd with your music blaring and you stand up and all I see is this light in my face. And it’s like, what am I doing? I’m gonna, I just going to pass out and die.
22:02
Kelly Talamo
Yes. Because in that setting, you don’t realize that you actually may not even see the people you’re talking to.
22:10
Tab Norris
Couldn’t see anything, but a light, bright light. I thought I’d go into heaven.
22:13
Kelly Talamo
That’s a little difficult. That’s a little difficult, but the beginning. Let’s go to the beginning because a lot of people say, yeah, I’m good. Once I get started, I’m like, how do you know that?
22:25
Tab Norris
Yeah. Maybe.
22:27
Tom Stanfill
You’re not.
22:30
Kelly Talamo
Inevitably, I’ll coach someone on a speech and I will tell him, Hey, listen, do you, are you able to define clearly the problem you’re about to solve? Because if they are, then I can help them to begin because you really want to start with the problem they’re about to solve. But that sounds so unsexy. Okay. I’ll say this to you, inevitably, people will go, oh yeah, I I’m ready for that. They’ll come back and say, but I’m, but I’m going to open up with this joke. Let me, let me tell you this joke and cause I’m going to need an ice breaker and I go, whoa. Before you open up with this jerk, this joke. Let me, let me see if this makes sense. Tell me if this makes sense to you. There are right now as we speak about a half a million professional comedians auto work, and you’re going to open up what a joke.
23:29
Kelly Talamo
How’s that lining up? Because jokes are all about timing. They’re all about timing. Now. I believe in being funny, but I’ve I, to my knowledge, I don’t think maybe once at a men’s I told a joke and it was sorry. I did. Because how do you get from the joke to see? Cause they’re sitting there going, even if they laughed now, they’re even further away from you. Then when you start, Make it worse. If that won him over, you better have four or five more to keep going because they might not be into your content. They just were in. So I don’t believe in that. I just because I want to. So, so here’s an opening line. I think if you’re having trouble, knowing how to start every time you go to speak somewhere, you’ve always, you’ve already spoken to someone who’s hired you. Right?
24:28
Kelly Talamo
They tell you these different things about their group. If you have trouble starting, how about this? I’ll ask you if you think this is a good way. I was talking to Barry yesterday about earlier in the week about the conference. Were going over to different things we could talk about. When he said that you guys tend to struggle with X, I thought I could help.
24:54
Tom Stanfill
Like that.
24:55
Tab Norris
That’s.
24:56
Kelly Talamo
Very similar to, by the way, because you said that you want leg room, we’re gonna recommend a first class seat.
25:06
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. It’s just basically articulating their problem in a way that they’re going to start. It’s like showing them a picture of themselves. They’re going to look at it. If the more you described them, the more you get the head nods. Even if you’re, what, if you’re a little off Kelly, what if you’re wrong? I guess you couldn’t be wrong if you’ve done your discovery. Well you’ll yeah,
25:28
Kelly Talamo
I wouldn’t be well, what if I’m wrong? Tell me what you mean by,
25:32
Tom Stanfill
Well, sometimes we’re speaking to audiences, I know this happens to me. You’re speaking to an audience where you can’t do discovery to the level. For example, I’ve spoken at leadership conferences where there’s a thousand people in the room and you kind of generally know their position, but they’re all from different companies. You try to, but I that’s where sometimes I get a little struggle with the opener. Cause I think I might know the problem. Now I could try to pick a problem that everybody’s interested in or pick three. At least the fact that I’m struggling to communicate that this is about them. I’ve always found that it’s helpful.
26:08
Tab Norris
That’s what I was going to say. I totally kept to your point being, and even if you’re wrong, you’re being other centered. You tried to be other centered. You tried to have that meeting, but you didn’t. Therefore it’s deemed, it feels vulnerable . It feels very human. Would you agree with that, Kelly?
26:23
Kelly Talamo
It does. It, it definitely feels little human. If, if, and if it was a generic, like you’re like what you’re just saying. I think I would cite andy Stanley. Does this really well he’ll style site. Four categories.
26:38
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, there you go.
26:40
Kelly Talamo
You can’t miss, you know, some of.
26:42
Tom Stanfill
You are, so you’re all somebody is going to identify themselves in a bucket. I love that.
26:48
Kelly Talamo
They finding their place in the story. You’re about to tell.
26:51
Tom Stanfill
Okay. I love that. So start off with the idea. Okay. Some of you may be here. You may be in a leadership role for the first time, or you may be new to this or you are you’re here. If you come up with three categories, everybody nods their head. Yeah. You learn how to connect the one thing that each of the three,
27:11
Kelly Talamo
Correct?
27:12
Tom Stanfill
I love it. I love it.
27:14
Kelly Talamo
That’s a way to do that. I know, this is as much art as it is science, but I know,
27:25
Tom Stanfill
I think it’s science. We’re going to package this later and provide it as science that works every time. And it’s really easy. It’s 1999 plus tax and shipping and handling, which is like three, ? Now I know there is some art. Well, and I think the art for me is we’ve talked about preparing is knowing what the preparation, what the what’s you’re probably getting a little designed here. What the design is going to look like live. It took me, I don’t know how many reps before I, I knew if I was prepared enough and my design was sound. That’s a science piece to me so that , I now know I don’t have it. I got to do further work. I think I’ve got it. But I don’t. I now know how to work through my design. Any tips that you can provide on when you move to the design stage, where, you put an outline together, that’s going to hit the mark.
28:31
Tom Stanfill
Any, any ways that you assess your work that tells you I’m not there yet, or I got more work to do or this is it.
28:45
Kelly Talamo
I think when I see a point that I can not, if I can not find how personally this relates to my audience, like I may read something about I’m blank right now, but I may read something. I may read something about sales. Okay. That’s a hard one because everything I know about sales, I really learned from you and we learned together. When were in the beginning, when Aslan first started, it was this. It was like, if you remember it was this massive discovery for two or three years. I got to be a part of that, y’all would you would go, Hey, what do you think about this? It would be, so that’s a, that’s a magic moment for me. I think along the way, every time we found something, like if you going to show a Tommy boy clip well, so it’s funny, but how does that relate to where I’m taking this audience.
29:44
Tom Stanfill
Having that down where you can articulate that to the audience,
29:50
Kelly Talamo
Correct? Whether it’s a clip I use or a personal story, that I’m about to unfold. I’m going to let them into a little slice of my life. As you guys said, I think it was, well, you had me read that, listen to that podcast where that gentlemen opens up with his failure,
30:10
Tom Stanfill
Right?
30:11
Kelly Talamo
Yes. I mean, so I even when you asked me to talk about public speaking, I’m thinking, I don’t really have that much to say about it, but I started thinking about my, about when it didn’t go well and what do I, and why didn’t it go well, and I think you had asked me, you sent me one particular question. I’ll just run to it right now, because I think it’s germane to this moment. That is, you said, what do you wish you had known started and above without a doubt. I wish I’d had known that the moment was not about me and not, I think maybe I had knowledge of that, but really believed that.
31:00
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.
31:01
Kelly Talamo
And, and you can tell when you visit people that you haven’t seen from a workshop in three or four years, if it was about you, they have nothing to say about it. Zero clue. When you walk in a room and someone goes, drop the rope from five years ago, eight years ago, or somebody writes you an email and tells you that they drop the rope with their husband after 20 years, you’re like, okay, that was not about me. That was, and we’re making headway.
31:37
Tom Stanfill
That’s a really good point. One of the things though, I think you may not struggle with that. I think a lot of us mortals do is they’re so nervous that even if I prep correctly, so my prep, I get to the point where I know how every point I want to make, I know how I can describe their world. That’s when I, I, I feel really confident because that’s also another kind of a key for me as I go, I’m feel really competent and passionate about this topic and about the points I’m going to make, because I can describe their world in a way that is gonna connect. Like, I, I there’s, no, sometimes I’m kind of fuzzy about it. I’ll make that point. I’m like, no, I need to actually write it out. What am I specifically going to say that connects the dots for them.
32:30
Tom Stanfill
It’s not something I’m going to do on the fly. Like I actually articulate at word by word how I’m going to unpack their example and connect them to the point. I get to that point, but then that’s where I start to get passionate and I feel comfortable. I know the points that I make, but then if I’m so nervous that even my prep doesn’t carry the day, is there anything meaning I’m in my head,
32:59
Kelly Talamo
Right?
32:59
Tom Stanfill
Cause I’m not natural and comfortable. Cause I actually think that the nervousness is two things. It’s one, it’s either a prep problem or it’s a rep problem, meaning,
33:10
Kelly Talamo
Right.
33:10
Tom Stanfill
Like I gotta do more of it. I’ve found like, for example, when I moved to it, I mean, there’s going to be questioned or somewhere when I’m moved to virtual, for example, and I had to talk to a screen at a wall and I wasn’t talking to anybody. I literally was looking at a camera and talking to nobody. I was uncomfortable and I had the same prep, but I didn’t have the reps. I needed to get in front of people and do this several times before. Any comments about, and I’d love to hear from you tab two, cause you had to make that transition. Like how do it’s a prep problem? Or is it a rep problem? Or it could be a design problem. Maybe that maybe that’s confusing. Maybe they’ll just call it a prep problem or a rep problem. You go first Kelly.
33:52
Kelly Talamo
Well, it’s there. Isn’t I think the correct word is autonomic nervous system response. I think it’s called seriously. It’s a response that is a natural response to any threatening stimulus. You have to ask yourself, what is the threat here actually? Partially is we are totally overemphasizing the stakes about how we frame this up. Like we’re going to go. My new s**t in it, we’re overemphasizing the fact that I could say it simply and make my point.
34:41
Tom Stanfill
So we’re making it too complicated.
34:42
Kelly Talamo
We, we overthink it because it’s, it’s a belief system. Right? Going back to that, those two thoughts, our beliefs, if you’re either performance oriented or communication oriented, that’s a belief that I I’ve seen. I’ve seen you transform with a belief trans. I mean, I don’t have to talk you into being other centered because you believe it and you live like that, but still you still can do things that are self centered.
35:16
Tom Stanfill
I love it.
35:16
Kelly Talamo
Here I am thinking I’m overthinking something and I’m not past, I’m never past that. In prep, I find if I write out what I want to say, I may have to look at it twice, but I’ll probably never, I rarely bring a note up.
35:36
Tom Stanfill
I will. I will say that. I think if it, my belief about this and I think you’re in a different category than a mere mortals is I prepare to the point where my Blaine is going to go blank because I’ve had that happen because when you, if you certain situations can happen and I have some trauma related to this, I, I was very comfortable speaking in front of groups of people up until my senior year in high school. I had a couple opportunities to do that. And I didn’t care. I didn’t think about it. I was a communicator. I didn’t put any pressure on myself. I, one time they said, Hey, you’re president of this chapter. It was called FCA, you’re your president. We want you to stand in front of the school and just tell everybody about FCA. And I’m like, no problem. I can do that.
36:19
Tom Stanfill
That’s not a big deal. I’ll do that. I’m sitting on the stage and I’m like, maybe number eight. And I’m looking at the entire school. I see the first person I had prepared zero. Oh, I’m just going to get up there and talk. I’m just going to wing it. I’m telling, whatever, I got a gregarious personality, I’ll just go with it. By the time they got to me, I stood up there and I completely went blank. I mean, I don’t have a clue what I said. That like marked me, that became like a trauma. Anytime I spoke, I remember one time I was invited to talk to eighth graders when I was in college. I couldn’t sleep for three weeks.
36:53
Tab Norris
So.
36:54
Tom Stanfill
My point is of saying all that is, it took me a lot of reps to get comfortable and get through that, that nervousness. What really helped me is like you said, write it out. I’ve got to the point where if I’m comfortable, I can go back to, I’ve got a high level thing that I can refer to a little notes. Like maybe five words I can refer to. At the same time I’ve written this thing out so many times that I’ve actually memorized my talk. If it’s one of those situations where I could go blank and it’s kind of my blankie, I never, I’m always okay. It gives me that comfort that if I’m ever get to that point, but I don’t, but I do think it’s a combination of breaths and prep. Tablet, what are some things you do?
37:47
Tab Norris
We get very similar. I, I have to start right out detail one time. And then I do three level. I start with a detail, everything I want. I’ll lock it down to a lighter, a slimmer outline. I go to a slimmer outline and then I go to a fourth, one card, everything I have to come to, everything I’m gonna talk about is one card. And those five things are all on. If I go completely blind, I can look at that and I can say something and I never look at it, but I have it. It was all the effort it took. When I’m done at that point, then it’s all about what Kelly said, because I’m a performer. I struggle with performance. I want to be awesome. I want people to go. Wow, he’s great. That’s a bunch of junk. I need to, I just, the biggest thing I can do is go around the block and tell myself, this is all about them.
38:37
Tab Norris
This is not about me. This is all about them. What’s the worst case. I’m an idiot. I say everything backwards. I’m still okay. I’m still going to be okay.
38:47
Tom Stanfill
I’m going to still.
38:48
Tab Norris
Love you. Anyway, I mean, but to me it is all about prep and then relax.
38:55
Kelly Talamo
Yeah, you reset the compass. Right. And I will do that. I will have a car if I ever need it. And there it is. And, and, and if I actually forget something, I will say something like, I actually forgot what’s next. Hold on.
39:13
Tab Norris
Yeah, I’ve done that.
39:15
Kelly Talamo
Because I think by that point, people know that I’m one of them. Lack of experiences is, is, can be, there is no you’re right. There is no substitute for rats.
39:29
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You got to have it. When I think to create a safe place, like find some place where you can talk to a couple of people and get the reps. You agree with that, Kelly?
39:39
Kelly Talamo
Well, I think for us, the three of us was that place for me, for corporate training, , pat, he literally, he just taught me a few things and threw me out there. He said, you have to remember, like, none of these guys have ever gone to college. I mean, you will be the smartest guy in the room just don’t act like,
40:04
Tab Norris
But she can relax. You’re going to be okay. That’s good. Anything else? I mean, I think, I feel like you’ve answered most of my questions, Tom. I know you have,
40:19
Tom Stanfill
I got a couple of, I got a couple of more to have that we, we, we, Kelly kind of razor talked about earlier that I want to double click for a minute. Delivery anything about, you talked about discovery, design and delivery, anything related to deliver that we need to know that ensures that we’re cause, and maybe a piggyback question is what I think effective delivery is when people believe what you believe like, and when people deliver with confidence or passion that pulls us in. What is it that, what do we need to know about delivery and where does your confidence and passion come from?
40:59
Kelly Talamo
Okay. So let’s do the delivery part. First people are people may, if you’re a quote unquote, good, they may actually want to believe what you believe. However, just knowledge never transforms anyone.
41:22
Tom Stanfill
So,
41:23
Kelly Talamo
This is my hardest thing is structuring a call to action that actually proves that you just bought into what I said.
41:33
Tom Stanfill
Okay. What do you mean by that?
41:35
Kelly Talamo
All right. There needs to be a call to action at the end. I remember like it was yesterday. You and I were having dinner in South Carolina, Tom. It was maybe a couple of weeks after the north point thing. What there was like 7,000, 5,000 people there three times. 15,000 people and you loved it, but you said, Kelly, I didn’t sense a real call to action at the end. And you were right. Like, I didn’t like that. You said it I’m like, wait a minute. I just got flaws from.
42:12
Tab Norris
This guy. What’s he talking about?
42:14
Kelly Talamo
I was on nervous without notes. I mean, you found something, but that is so true. Now the reason I, for me ending is more difficult than beginning.
42:26
Tom Stanfill
By.
42:26
Kelly Talamo
Far like landing the plane. It used to be, I would circle with more information. I learned that’s a dead end. Like you run out of gas. Think about that. You’re circling the airport, but you run out of gas,
42:40
Tom Stanfill
The plane, you gotta land.
42:41
Kelly Talamo
The planes coming down one way or the other you.
42:46
Tab Norris
Are going to get off of. There was an elegant landing or going to drag.
42:56
Kelly Talamo
I realized that I fought a call to action because I know I’m going to rub up against people and they may not like me. Now. They love me up until this point. Now I’m going to ask them to go do something.
43:14
Tom Stanfill
Now it’s getting personal.
43:15
Kelly Talamo
Now it’s getting personal and they got to change their structure. I I’ve learned the hard way about delivering a call to action and landing the plane and the last thing that you say is always the most important thing. You should end with something that has to do with your theme, you should restate your theme. The reason I think the reason that we’re there. I always try to end with something that just wraps up my talk, but I’ve probably said it five times already.
43:53
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. They just wrap up the talk, remind them of the one thing. So that’s the key to close. You were saying the confidence.
44:03
Tab Norris
And when did that come from? Where does your confidence come from?
44:07
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Where do you’ve talked about people. Believe not necessarily what you believe. It’s more of, I think you were saying something that’s more about emotion. You’ve got to get them. It’s, it’s more than just a belief, right? To get them to act, which is your lead you to talk about call to action. There anything that you would say about getting people to experience what you’re saying more so than just the facts are just logic.
44:32
Kelly Talamo
I think people tend to lean into people who are passionate about what they’re talking about.
44:40
Tom Stanfill
First of all.
44:41
Kelly Talamo
Okay. So I can’t fake that. When you first hit me with sales training, I wasn’t passionate about it until I started to see that this is transformational. This is a way that people, I mean, gosh, I mean, you’ve said it on every podcast, but this is, has to do with real life. Anything that has to do with a person shaping their life, I’m con I’m passionate about that or reshaping their life.
45:14
Tom Stanfill
I think that’s the key. I think as you say that’s, what’s resonated with me as well. Just we all are passionate about something, right? It’s like, if we’re giving a talk for somebody else or we’re trying to perform, then we might miss the fact that what is it that we’re so passionate about and what is the thing that we’re we love and what is it that we want to talk about? When you can identify that and relate it to your talk. It’s a, win-win, it’s like the audience is going to win because this is what they care about. This is the problem. You’re going to share what you’re passionate about and the truth related to that. You start, and I, this is what I feel. When I start to put my outline together, I start to get excited and I can tell when I’m like, oh man, I can not wait to talk about this.
46:01
Tom Stanfill
Like, oh, build this versus I don’t know what to say, or I’m trying to work on, I’m not ready because I haven’t landed it because that’s not what I’m going to walk on the stage. By the way, I always tell myself, it’s not my truth. Right. I don’t have to, I’m not the one saying I’m going to create truth and delivered. I’m just saying, this is the truth that we all know. I’m just going to package it in a way that hopefully you’ll see that dress is your problem. It’s about figuring out what you’re passionate about. What’s the truth about that. Be able to drill down to the, you can communicate it in a way that, that means something to the audience.
46:35
Kelly Talamo
Right? Okay. In preparation, I look at it as I’m picking these people up at a station.
46:42
Tom Stanfill
And I like that.
46:43
Kelly Talamo
I’m taking them somewhere. If I, when you give somebody a ride and all you do is drive in circles, they want out. If they know, oh my gosh, you’re going to take me where I need to go. Then. So one of the ways to get.
47:03
Tom Stanfill
People to.
47:03
Kelly Talamo
Buy into an action item is to foreshadow or give. I got this from Donald Miller is foreshadowed the climactic scene. This is what your life would look like. If you implement this, imagine being able to walk in and be all there for your teenage daughter who you’ve had with, for the last five years, what would that be? Like?
47:34
Tom Stanfill
I love that idea. I love that analogy of picking them up at a station. What would you say to help? So they would get in the car. What would you say, then you would tell them this is where we’re going.
47:48
Kelly Talamo
And okay. Let’s do some scenery along the way. Those are the stories to me as you’re looking out the window and you can weave in a little scenery, but sooner or later they want out the car, right? You’ve been with an Uber driver, who’s got an awesome scene. He’s great to be with. And, and he leans back and says, did you, are you enjoying this? Be like, this is the best Uber rider I ever had. He says, good, because I don’t really want to stop. And you’re like, you’re done.
48:20
Tab Norris
We’re done. We’re finished.
48:23
Tom Stanfill
There’s some great stuff here. Tab. Before we asked Kelly our last two questions that we’re now asking all guests, this is a new twist, a favorite point today. Mine, I’ll give you some time to buy into. I got, my favorite is the, and I’m stealing. I know I’m probably gonna steal it from YouTube performance orientation versus communication orientation. That was, that was rich. That was a break.
48:47
Tab Norris
Hands down. That’s.
48:48
Tom Stanfill
The love that I met. My second is the idea. Okay. That’s not fair.
48:56
Tab Norris
I take the whole talk and then Robin, I liked his hat.
49:00
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. My problem is tab. I can’t pick the one thing. That’s my father.
49:05
Tab Norris
I think you picked the winner. I think that was really good. If mine doesn’t match, you can bring yours in my set. My, my second was your prep tip just on discover, design and deliver, and really how you kind of cold that out. I mean, I thought that was really good too, but if you have something else, Tom, you can throw that in.
49:25
Tom Stanfill
I love the journey idea. I just, that visual really connected with me is if I’m talking to somebody for 30 minutes, it’s a journey. It’s like, I’m going to pick them up. Why would they, why would they ride with me? Right. And what would I say? I got to tell them where we’re going. This kind of a, for some reason that makes sense to me, there’s a logical pathway to get to the journey. And, and what’s that going to look like? Because it’s you, can’t just, you’re not going to just get there. There is a journey. So I love that. I’m gonna have to marinate on that. All right. Close with our last two questions.
50:02
Kelly Talamo
You.
50:02
Tom Stanfill
Got another point. Okay. Okay. Well, we got another point. Hold on everybody.
50:08
Kelly Talamo
Well, my favorite is one. I didn’t get to say, but I want to get this.
50:15
Tab Norris
We got to get it out there. Then,
50:19
Tom Stanfill
Hey, you get paid the same tele saying, share this.
50:24
Kelly Talamo
Here’s what here’s I think helps me to continually connect to me is there’s a speakers, dance going on.
50:36
Tom Stanfill
Communication,
50:37
Kelly Talamo
Dance, always. There’s always a dance. Okay. If a dance is always between two people, I mean, unless you’re doing a solo, so I’m not doing a solo thing, No the performance orientation. I could be a solo act, but I look at this as a dance of a couple, the audience and myself, and we, I feel like I need to continually live in tension between the content I’m bringing and where my audience is on this journey. The more I’m connected to my content and like another words, this content is the greatest. They need all nine of these points. I’ve got to get them out. I got slides. I mean, not one of them can be the more I’m connected to content. The less I can read the audience.
51:41
Tom Stanfill
That goes back to your prepare. If I know my content, then I can shift my focus to the August.
51:50
Kelly Talamo
When you’re in a sales workshop. I know you guys have experienced this and when you’re in a sales workshop and you’ve got that one guy that salesman that’s been there, he’s been in sales for 32 years with his arms crossed in the front right side of the room with his arms crossed, saying, I dare you to teach me something. I, my material is worthless to that. So there’s two components. I think that has to be, to make any presentation, whether it’s three people or 33 or 3,300, and that is, it has to be engaging. It has to be helpful if it’s engaging and not helpful. I just entertained. If it’s helpful and not engaging, it’s useless because they weren’t there to find out the information they left.
52:47
Tom Stanfill
You lost receptivity.
52:48
Kelly Talamo
You lost receptivity.
52:50
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You got it. It’s like, you’ve got, yeah, I got it. That’s two dimensions, right? It’s the constant tension ideas. Constant tension.
53:04
Kelly Talamo
Intention makes me realize I’m never, I’ve never arrived.
53:09
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Well, it’s so easy to get to fall in love with our stuff. Right? We spend all day thinking about our stuff. Whatever you sell, whatever you do. We think about it all the time we go and meetings, we talk about it. We think about it when we go to bed. Well, hopefully not, but we wake up. We’re thinking about it. All of a sudden, the audience, the customer appears and we spend, and all of a sudden, we want to tell them about our stuff and this, and that’s where we’re most comfortable rather than saying it starts with them, which is where all my preps now that I’ve been doing, making sales presentations now for you. I don’t know how many years, too many to count. All my prep is around talking about them. My presentations are on point when I can go to every key point and say, this is what you think about this.
53:58
Tom Stanfill
Or let me tell you about you. That’s where I have to think about that because I can’t memorize that’s right. Every time. I think that’s a great point, Kelly.
54:08
Kelly Talamo
The last thing is we changed the twos easy. I want to say something about to simple instead of easy, because literally everybody’s looking for easy.
54:20
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.
54:22
Kelly Talamo
Simple. Simple is never means easy.
54:26
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.
54:28
Kelly Talamo
This clear commands, love your wife. That’s simple. I don’t, I don’t need to go to seminary to figure out what that means. Easy. Have you met her? Did you.
54:44
Tom Stanfill
Easy?
54:45
Kelly Talamo
It was easy.
54:46
Tab Norris
We’re starting to move into a whole nother podcast, which I think is probably a good transition. Let’s wrap it up with that.
54:53
Kelly Talamo
So we want to be simple. Right? Even the Azlan stuff, it’s not super complex. It’s really relative. Relatively simple, but easy to be other centered. No, you got to check your compass moment by moment.
55:11
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I’m constantly, I mean, I’ve been teaching, take the trip where we’re supposed to not tell our, our perspective first, but take the trip and see the other person’s perspective. Before we share our point of view. I’ve been teaching that for 30 years. I struggle with that still. You know what? I walk into a meeting or I have a conversation with my spouse. Your kids is like, the first thing I want to do is go, well, let me tell you a different point of view versus take the time to validate their place is so simple, but it’s never going to be easy. All right. Let’s close with our.
55:41
Tab Norris
Let’s pick one quest. Do you want to do both? Are you on do to.
55:45
Tom Stanfill
He’s on his answer to one?
55:46
Tab Norris
Let’s see how long is the answer is.
55:48
Tom Stanfill
Okay. Favorite restaurant tab. Cause we’re building our restaurant list. Favorite recipes.
55:53
Tab Norris
True. No,
55:54
Tom Stanfill
No, no requirements. No, no constraints. What’s your favorite restaurant?
56:00
Kelly Talamo
There is a restaurant here in Covington, Louisiana called Gallagher.
56:04
Tom Stanfill
Gallagher’s okay. In Covington, Louisiana.
56:08
Kelly Talamo
It doesn’t matter what you are. It’s all great.
56:14
Tom Stanfill
It’s going to be our description. It doesn’t matter.
56:17
Kelly Talamo
It doesn’t matter. I mean, I’ve tried to cross them up a couple of times and like, oh, I’m going to get something different that way. No, I mean, everything is,
56:28
Tom Stanfill
How far is it? Lacrosse lake pots train from new Orleans to.
56:33
Tab Norris
Gallagher’s.
56:34
Tom Stanfill
30 minutes.
56:35
Kelly Talamo
I actually one in Mandeville. There’s two Mandeville. There’s one in Mandeville and one in Covington and Mary and I have been a few times and it’s always amazing. If I want to give someone a dinner, I always do that because I know it’s going to be a grand slam.
56:51
Tom Stanfill
Beautiful. Not too far from new Orleans. If you guys are ever in new Orleans. All right. I think that’ll, that should wrap it up tab. Any, any last thoughts before we close her? Close them, close this out. No,
57:03
Tab Norris
I just, once again, I thank you, Kelly, just for sharing your, some, some nuggets with us and some just learning from you. I mean, just the years of experience you’ve had, and we’re grateful that you joined us and we wish you the best,
57:18
Kelly Talamo
My frame, so grateful. And, and you guys had a lot to do with me as a communicator. I think you didn’t reference that near enough, how much you had to work with me.
57:34
Tab Norris
Naturally born my friend naturally born easy to work with.
57:40
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Seriously, Kelly. Thank you. Thank you for joining us, sharing your wisdom that you’ve learned. For those listening, if you like the podcast, let us know. That’s what encourages us to continue this journey. So we appreciate you listening. Thanks again, Kelly tab, and we’ll see you guys next week.
