Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from EP. 194 Influencing The Unreceptive Customer

Today Tom and Scott talk about how our world is more isolated than ever, people are more entrenched in their own opinions, making traditional sales tactics fall flat.  The harder you push, the more resistance you face. Listen as Tom helps you discover the 3 P's to convert even the most disinterested leads:

• Priority: It's not about you, it's about your customer. Learn how to put their needs first and build trust through genuine service.

• Pressure: Ditch the aggressive pitch! People crave freedom, so we'll show you how to frame your approach as solving problems, not making sales.

• Point of View: Stop talking and start listening! We'll teach you to uncover your prospect's true concerns and tailor your solutions to their unique perspective.

Ready to stop pushing and start influencing? Subscribe to our podcast and discover how to connect with even the toughest customers!

Listen below-

Or read below- 

 
00:14 
Scott Cassidy 
Welcome back to another episode of sales with Aslan, your weekly therapy session for those who sell for a living and those who help those who sell for a living.  And, you know, when I pause, that means doctor sales is on the line. Doctor sales paging doctor sales.  Doctor sales is on the line.  You know, I'm going to add something to your title. We usually call you CEO, founder, global Overlord. I'm going to add author. So let's get into this topic that's going to be such an important part of the book, but it's a really important part of the programs, and it's a really important part of driving receptivity and improving your influence. Take us through a little bit about what you mean or how we might set up an increase information flow between us and our clients.  

 
01:03 
Tom Stanfill 
Well, yeah, the main topic we're talking about is the idea that, and this is the main premise of the book, and something I think we're all familiar with in sales is that the unreceptive audience is growing. In other words, the people who are open to meeting with us and the people who are what we call emotionally open to changing their beliefs. That number is declining.  

 
01:30 
Scott Cassidy 
Now, is that a COVID thing or.  

 
01:31 
Tom Stanfill 
Was that happening before COVID It's been a continual. The number of people that are open to meeting and open to changing their beliefs and open to is continuing declining for all kinds of reasons. The two main reasons I think of is that, or the research that we've discovered reveals that people are just overwhelmed with information. Yeah, yeah, right. So the availability of information, which means I'm less dependent on a salesperson, the amount of information, which means I'm so overwhelmed I can't read another email, or I can't pay attention to another, all of those things. And then also the other thing isolation. People are more isolated, so they're only hanging out with their tribe, which people that reinforce what they believe. So there's less interaction with people who think differently.  

 
02:19 
Tom Stanfill 
So all of those things make it more difficult to convert what I call convert the disinterested or convert the unreceptive. And so it's funny because, as you know, before COVID the market was blowing up, but reps and market was growing and the stock market's going and you think everybody was selling more. But actually sellers for five years in a row have failed to hit quota. More sellers have failed to hit quota than ever before. So that number keeps declining. So it's been tough. It's tough to convert to disinterested. And so what we keep doing is trying new ways to sell. And those are all candidly backfiring.  

 
02:56 
Scott Cassidy 
Well, and I can remember back way before you and I got together, this is 2012 that Gartner, at the time CEB, had put out that study, that 57% of the decision was made or the buying process was made, let's say it that way, before a sales rep was even invited into the process. That number's much higher today, I would bet.  

 
03:15 
Tom Stanfill 
Right.  

 
03:15 
Scott Cassidy 
If I go back and look where Gartner is today, and then it's probably closer to 70%. So people are gathering their information somewhere. And I love your isolation comment because we've never been more isolated than were in the last year. I like that. Stuck with our own tribe, not seeing counterarguments or not being able to have intelligent conversations with people that think differently than us. That's been at a premium lately, hasn't it? So what do we do about it? I know the seller's instinct is to do one of two things. When that happens, they do what, Tom? They either fight or flight.  

 
03:49 
Tom Stanfill 
Fight or flight. It's what most people do. So we, you know, if you. If you think of the, you know, the fertile soil, there's not very much fertile soil to plant ourselves.  

 
04:02 
Scott Cassidy 
Right, exactly.  

 
04:04 
Tom Stanfill 
And so as we are running into this difficult. We can't find fertile soil. We just work harder, try to find more fertile soil. Another analogy to use is we fight. You know, the more resistance we get, the more we fight. Or some people just flee and say, well, this. This soil is not fertile, so we move on to something else. So. But ultimately, our instincts sabotage our ability to convert the disinterested. So, you know, we teach a principle is when someone's emotionally closed, the more you try to persuade them, the more closed they become.   

 
04:39 
Tom Stanfill 
So our instinct to sell harder. Right. It backfires because we try to, you know, up the. They amp our message. You know, we try to prove the quality of our message. We try harder to convert them. And when we do that actually pushes them away because they're actually not resisting a solution. They're resisting a sales call. So the more we sell, the more resistant they become. So that doesn't work. And obviously, if you flee, you know, if you meet resistance and, well, these poor people, you know, the soil's not fertile, so we just move on. Well, that doesn't work either.  

 05:10 
Tom Stanfill 
Because we're running out of real estate.  

 
05:12 
Speaker 3 
Well, I was going to say, what.  

 
05:13 
Scott Cassidy 
Percentage of the deals do you think you would ever close if you flee? I would say zero. And what percentage will you if you fight? I mean, maybe one out of, I don't know, ten. If you're fighting with somebody, are they going to buy from you? I don't know.  

 
05:28 
Tom Stanfill 
Yeah, the rates are, you know, the percentage has changed. It's hard to come up percentages of people. You know, the customers are unreceptive. But over the years we've polled, you know, almost everybody we've trained over the years and consistently research this and we keep coming back with this 80%. You know, if, you know, we could just use that for this podcast that 80% of the people you try to sell to are closed. A lot higher are closed to a meeting. You know, most sales, you know, the average percentage of people that are respond to email, it's like 2%.  

 
06:04 
Tom Stanfill 
So, you know, 98% are closed. And then when you're trying to, you know, win a deal, change beliefs, unseat a competitor that's more like 80%. So it's tough. And so the traditional sales approach doesn't work when you're faced with those types of customers and prospects. So we got to do something different.  

 
06:27 
Scott Cassidy 
So let me guess, this something different has three p's in it, which I do love how we make these memorable. This is just like because somebody's on a treadmill right now and they're going, how am I going to remember this? Well, you're going to remember these three p's that are going to make your life different when you're trying to influence somebody.  

 
06:43 
Tom Stanfill 
So let's go through the first p.  

 
06:45 
Scott Cassidy 
Tom, what's the first p?  

 
06:47 
Tom Stanfill 
Yeah, so just kind of, again, make sure you're given the right amount of context of this topic. So when we're faced with someone, either they're unreceptive to me or unreceptive to our ideas, or change their beliefs. And we can apply this. Scott, at home, of course, we're talking to a teenager about anything, or we're talking to our spouse or a close friend, or we're talking again to a customer we want to change their beliefs about. Maybe they decided ten years ago that the solution you sell isn't right for them. And I've talked to many sales reps like, well, they decided ten years ago and they're like, everything's changed since ten years ago, but the customer's still like, that's not my thing, or I'm not interested, or they're close to a meeting. The traditional approach doesn't work.  

 
07:30 
Tom Stanfill 
So instead of trying to amp up our message, we need to create receptivity. So how do we get them to be emotionally open? And it starts by switching from focusing on what we say to creating receptivity to creating that fertile soil, because we got to create a fertile soil before we can plant the seed, which is our message. So how do we create a fertile soil? Three P's.  

 
07:53 
Scott Cassidy
Three P's.  

 
07:54 
Tom Stanfill 
Yeah, three P's. The first one is priority. And so priority is simply about. There is a priority. Someone's a priority on the call.  

 
08:04 
Scott Cassidy
Yes.  

 
08:05 
Tom Stanfill 
Before you know if you're meeting with somebody or you're trying to get their attention or you're trying to, because you're sending an email or you're trying change of belief. Somebody's the priority. It's either you or them. There are only two choices, and a lot of us don't stop enough to really decide who's first, because if we all default to self, and when we default to self, we're the hero of the story. And so we have to constantly monitor our motive and determine who's first and then communicate our motive. Yeah, that's where we start.  

 
08:41 
Scott Cassidy 
Well, and I'm remembering past podcasts you and I have done together where you have said in the past, like, that is a conscious thing. You've still got to, you know, make sure you go in with that mindset. You got to consciously say the customer's the priority. My solution is only secondary if it solves an issue that they're having, but I have to make them the priority. And that motive is transparent. People see through that if it's not the case, if they don't feel like their priority.  

 
09:07 
Tom Stanfill 
And it's easy for us to skip that because we're so focused on what do I need to say about my solution? What's my sales process? These are questions we get all the time. What's the best sales process? How do I position questions? Or what's the best question? Or how do I position an email? Or how do I write an effective email? Or how do I overcome objections? All the things that we need to do in sales comes back to who's the priority? Because when the customer is the central figure in the story, all those things get super clear. I guarantee you, if you stop right now and you look at your sales process, you will see that the sales process is built around the seller, not the customer.  

 
09:46 
Scott Cassidy
Yes.  

 
09:47 
Tom Stanfill 
How do I get to move my solution through the process? How do I overcome objections? How do I get them to meet with me about my solution? Because it's very counter. It's very intuitive to start with us.  

 
10:03 
Scott Cassidy
Yeah, yeah.  

 
10:05 
Scott Cassidy 
Well, I mean, the marketing departments and the product, you know, marketing folks that are developing the products are developing, you know, what they know about the market, but not everybody in the market is exactly the same. And those discussions that you have, if you're prioritizing what you're hearing from the client and making them the priority, you know, will determine whether your solution fits, not vice versa. You can't shoehorn your solution, right?  

 
10:29 
Tom Stanfill 
No. And there's, let's just say, let's say that you are experienced seller and you understand the customer extremely well and you've built what we call an other centered, customer focused sales process. And you're very good at communicating your solution in terms of why it's in the customer's best interest to embrace it. And you're great at positioning questions in a way that communicates to the customer. That's all about them. Here's if you're good at all that, but you still have a self centered motive. It'll still sabotage your ability to convert the disinterested because motive is ultimately transparent. And so if you don't stop before every meeting and reset your compass, as we say, because we all default to self, just like compasses default to north, and that's how a compass works. We all default to self.  

 
11:22 
Tom Stanfill 
And so we've got to reset our compass to default to the customer. And if we don't stop before every meeting, we're going to gravitate to self and we're going to have an agenda. And that happens to me. I mean, I teach this stuff. And if I don't stop before every meeting and decide who is first, I will ultimately sabotage my ability to drive receptivity.  

 
11:44 
Scott Cassidy 
And, you know, how do you, I get that you have to do that before each meeting, but how do you know you've done that in each meeting? Like, how do you monitor your own, your own self in that? I mean, obviously, if somebody else is watching you, that's one way people can record their calls because Zoom is, you know, a way to do that. But, yeah, what's the best indicator that, you know, you've done that on every call?  

 
12:10 
Tom Stanfill 
I can see a shift in my demeanor and just almost in my emotional state because if I stop. So first of all, there's a real practical step. I have to literally stop before every meeting and I have to make a decision. I was driving home, I think I've told this story before, but I was driving home my wife and I share a Pandora account, so only one of us can listen to Pandora at a time. So I'm driving home, I'm listening to Pandora, and it says, all of a sudden, a screen comes up and says, do you want to listen to Pandora, or do you want to let the other person listen to Pandora? Someone else is listening to Pandora. Do you want to listen to Pandora, or do you want to let your wife listen to Pandora? I have to make a decision.  

 
12:55 
Scott Cassidy 
Yeah.  

 
12:56 
Tom Stanfill 
And I have to push that button. I literally have to push a button that says, me or her. Is it me or her? And we. It. Is that clear? Before you meet with a customer, you need to push the button that says me or you. It's either about me or it's about you. And when I push that button, I can see a shift in me and the way I communicate, the way my emotional temperature changes, or I shouldn't say temperature state changes. So for me, it's really just stopping and asking myself that question. And the reason I'm willing to do that is because I've learned a long time ago, and maybe some people that listen to this podcast haven't really landed on this yet. I know I'm more successful when I serve, when I put the customer first, literally do that.  

 
13:43 
Tom Stanfill 
My questions are more effective. What I recommend is more effective. They listen to me more. They open up to me more. I'm just much more effective. I'm more effective when I'm other centered. So therefore, once I. It's. To me, it's just a remembering thing.  

 
14:00 
Scott Cassidy 
Yeah.  

 
14:01 
Tom Stanfill 
And so that's. I don't know if that answered your question.  

 
14:03 
Scott Cassidy
It does.  

 
14:03 
Scott Cassidy 
No, it does. We've talked about it many times, that we are never more fulfilled than when we're serving others and we're never more successful. At least that's what we believe. And many of our clients would back us up on that. All right, Tom, before we move on from priority, anything else on that piece of it, before we move to the second p?  

 
14:22 
Tom Stanfill 
No, I think that's where it starts. I would also say this, being able to do that effectively is not just a decision. We said this earlier, but I want to underline this. It's one thing to monitor what you believe and make the decision, but I also have to communicate it.  

 
14:42 
Scott Cassidy
Yes.  

 
14:43 
Tom Stanfill 
I also have to communicate to them what my priority is. I mean, at the beginning of a. Beginning of a presentation, for example, or beginning of a meeting, we need to be able to articulate why we're there and why we're there. How we're there to serve them and help them get what they want. Ultimately, selling is about getting, helping people get what they want. And if we struggle to articulate that, we probably haven't made that decision.  

 
15:06 
Scott Cassidy 
Great point. Great point. All right, before we move to the second p, which is not Pandora, although that could be the fourth. No, in this thing, Pandora is going to be memorable. People are going to remember that story.  

 
15:16 
Tom Stanfill 
If they haven't heard it before.  

 
15:17 
Scott Cassidy 
You have to choose who gets to listen to the music. Let's go on to the second p. Tom, what is the second p?  

 
15:25 
Tom Stanfill 
The second p is pressure. So when people feel pressure, they are going to resist that pressure. People do not like to feel. People want to be in control, and they don't. They resist that. And they. They may resist it by faking and not. Not bringing up tough subjects where they feel like you're going to try to pressure them to change their belief, or they may just. They may just like to fight with you. Then it creates kind of an argument. They start to fight.  

 
15:52 
Scott Cassidy 
So.  

 
15:52 
Tom Stanfill 
So they want to avoid pressure. And because of our role in being in sales, they assume we're going to make a commission off everything we recommend. And so when we recommend the special on the menu, it's because they're going to make more money or when we, you know, so they're starting to feel that tension because of our role. And a great example of this, of eliminating the pressure and having productive conversation is I had kind of the opposite pressure. I had a conversation with a friend of mine recently, and I was thinking about this in preparing for the podcast. We talked about the most incendiary subjects. You possibly talked about religion. We talked about race, we talked about politics. We talked about religion, and we talked about raising children.  

 
16:44 
Tom Stanfill 
And we had, I would say, let's just say 50% of the time, we had opposing opinions about those subjects.  

 
16:53 
Tom Stanfill 
And the conversation was incredibly productive. I listened to him and never got upset, and he listened to me and never got upset. And he actually told me conversations that he had with his teenager, and the teenager never got upset. And I started looking what was the common thread to that conversation? We both had the freedom to choose. In other words, I didn't have to agree with him. He just wanted to share his point of view. He didn't have to agree with me. He just was sharing his point of view. And we had a very interesting conversation that was extremely productive. And it's all because there was no pressure. And so the bottom line is, as long as the listener has the freedom to choose. They're going to be receptive to what you have to say.  

 
17:41 
Tom Stanfill 
Now, sometimes we have to communicate and demonstrate they have the freedom to choose because they don't believe that.  

 
17:45 
Scott Cassidy 
Right.  

 
17:46 
Tom Stanfill 
But what we do is, what we call we talk about is drop the rope. So in other words, to kind of use a different metaphor, as long as you're pulling the rope, they're going to feel the tug of war. So we need to drop the rope and communicate that there's freedom to choose.  

 
17:59 
Scott Cassidy 
Yeah, yeah.  

 
18:00 
Scott Cassidy 
I mean, and there's great language you can use to show that is your motive that you want to hear. It sounds like that conversation you had was amazing. I mean, I. I'll add one to that. Incendiary subjects that you talk about.  

 
18:13 
Tom Stanfill 
Incendiary.  

 
18:15 
Scott Cassidy 
Right now. 

 
18:16 
Scott Cassidy 
Everybody's arguing over whether you should have to get the vaccine. Like they're making a huge push to make sure 70% of Americans are vaccinated by June. That subject matter, at least at the cocktail parties I've been at recently, is. It's like a 50 split. And people are very dug in about this.  

 
18:32 
Tom Stanfill 
Yeah.  

 
18:33 
Scott Cassidy 
Imagine if they took the Tom Stanfill approach and said, look, I'm not going to try to influence you, and I don't want to be influenced, but I would love to learn from you why you think I should or shouldn't get the vaccine. What a great conversation that would be. And now take that into your work environment.  

 
18:48 
Scott Cassidy
Right.  

 
18:48 
Scott Cassidy 
And have that same level of, I'm not trying to sell you anything, I'm trying to help you solve a problem. Don't even know if our stuff will help you, but if it does, we'll go through those options later. That's a much different conversation.  

 
19:01 
Tom Stanfill 
And I think you're making a really good example because I think we have to remind ourselves is that our role is to influence.  

 
19:12 
Tom Stanfill 
Right. We want to change people's belief. That's what our role is in sales.  

 
19:18 
Tom Stanfill 
There are times when people say, I want what you offer and I would like to buy it from you.  

 
19:24 
Tom Stanfill 
And that's not what we get paid for. Right. And that's not what we're going to get. That's not how we're going to make high six figures. Six figures or even seven figures in sales.  

 
19:34 
Tom Stanfill 
You really get compensated well, is when you change people's beliefs. So when you want to change somebody's belief, let's say, about vaccines, you need to. The best way to do that is allow them the freedom to tell you whatever they want to tell you because as soon as an argument starts, influence ends, right? As soon as you start arguing about vaccines like, oh, yeah, well, you're wrong. You should get vaccinated or you shouldn't get vaccinated. And here's why. As soon as you have that sort of year, you don't have the freedom to choose how you see the world. And I don't respect your point of view, which is the next one we're going to talk about. Influence ends. Now, you may feel better, but you accomplish nothing.  

 
20:16 
Tom Stanfill 
So when a customer says, well, I think yours is too expensive, I'm going to go in the cheaper solution. I'm thinking about a cheaper solution. As soon as we say, well, you're an idiot, let me tell you why you're wrong. Right? Yep, influence ends. But if we say, well, that might be a good choice for you, choosing a nevertheless solution may be in your best interest. Let's explore together what you should do, what's right for you. Some we're not right for all customers. That's a great example of dropping the rope. And we're eliminating that pressure.  

 
20:46 
Scott Cassidy 
I love that t shirt you just wrote. As soon as arguments start, influence ends. That's awesome. All right, very good. So anything else on pressure before we move on to you just kind of mentioned point of view. That's the last piece. Anything else on pressure?  

 
20:59 
Tom Stanfill 
No, I think we covered it.  

 
21:01 
Scott Cassidy 
I think we covered it well. Yeah. And those real life examples are a great place to practice in your social life and in your home, maybe with a teenager before you try it on with live ammo on customers, because it's a lot less painful if you mess this up.  

 
21:20 
Tom Stanfill 
What's the difference between, what's the difference between personal and business is in personal, which is a good point about practicing, you'll get real life feedback, like you'll still get, you know, when you have, when you're friends with somebody, you're talking to family members, you really instantly know, okay, I'm losing influence here.  

21:39 
Tom Stanfill 
But in business, when you meet with customers, a lot of times they just will give you, they'll just simply, everything will seem great.  

21:46 
Tom Stanfill 
Nothing will happen.  

 
21:47 
Scott Cassidy 
And they'll never call again.  

 
21:48 
Tom Stanfill 
You'll never.  

21:48 
Tom Stanfill 
They're like, well, they're just going, yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever. I don't care. I don't. I don't really want to engage because you'll just end up arguing with more of me. So we'll just. Yeah, that sounds great. Send me information. Go ahead. Sure. That sounds wonderful.  

22:00 
Scott Cassidy 
Lose my number. Exactly. All right, let's move on to point of view, our final p in the process. Talk about, you know, establishing the customer's point of view.  

 
22:11 
Tom Stanfill 
Yeah. So, so priority, pressure, and point of view, the three p's that really drive receptivity. Point of view is if you can articulate that you understand the other person's point of view, you're going to get more meetings, you're going to get them to embrace your point of view, and you're also going to strengthen the relationship. You're also going to make them much more emotionally receptive to just listening to you in the first place. I mean, this is one of the most powerful of the p's is being able to articulate their point of view. If you can't begin the sentence with because you probably can't get a meeting and you probably can't position your solution away where anybody really cares.  

 
22:55 
Scott Cassidy 
Yeah, no, it's a great point. I mean, and we've talked about this for sure on other podcasts over the last couple of years, but because you are some of the or two of the most powerful words, because that shows that you've listened, and it also articulates and shows the respect that you not only listen, but you absorbed and understand what their view of the world looks like. And yes, what a huge part of influence I can imagine. Tell us about some statistics you've come into with regard to using this, because I know we did a little experiment.  

 
23:29 
Tom Stanfill 
Not too long ago. Yeah. We wanted to test. So we talked about point of view in so many different ways. You have to. The best way to get a meeting is start with the decision maker. Point of view.  

23:41 
Tom Stanfill 
What's on. We talk about what's on their whiteboard. That's their point of view. Whatever's on their whiteboard is what they care about.  

 
23:47 
Scott Cassidy 
Keeps them up at night. Yeah, we've heard lots of.  

 
23:49 
Tom Stanfill 
And whether they have an actual whiteboard and whether, you know, what's their initiatives are written on that, it doesn't really matter. The reality is they all want something and they have a plan to get it, and that's their point of view. What do they want and what's their plan to get it, and what are their problems related to that? So that's their point of view. So we tested what happens when you send the traditional marketing email where we, and we worked really hard at creating an email that was very compelling and articulated the benefits of the solution that were offering. Yeah, we didn't try to. We tried to create a very realistic, very, again, compelling email where we said, here's the solution we're selling, here's why it's really effective. Here's case studies, here's the results, here's the ROI, here's the benefits of the solution.  

 
24:44 
Tom Stanfill 
And we wrote it as best we could.  

 
24:46 
Scott Cassidy 
Well, we used examples like the ones you and I get every day of almost all of them lead with their solution. That's what people, for some reason people do.  

 
24:55 
Tom Stanfill 
We lead with our solution. That's what we know best. What's the benefit of our solution and why is it working for other people? And we all do some sort of form of that. So we took that same email and we changed it and we said, we're going to lead with a problem, not our solution. We're going to lead with a problem. We're going to start off with because you as a blah blah blah, typically struggle with this. Or basically we just articulated their problem. We started with their point of view and not our solution. And then we sent out, I don't know, it was close to 300 emails, I think. Yep, I did. I forgot to look up. But it was something. It was over 200.  

 
25:30 
Scott Cassidy 
Oh, yeah, no, it was, it was over 300 actually.  

25:33 
Tom Stanfill 
Over 300. Okay. And so we tested that and the emails that started with the customers, decision makers, whatever prospects point of view.  

25:43 
Tom Stanfill 
Were clicked through 300%. Clicker rate was 300% higher.  

25:49 
Scott Cassidy 
I mean, that says a lot, but it's, think about that. When, when someone is emailing you and they know enough about you to say, I think you're having this problem.  

25:59 
Scott Cassidy 
Because it shows a little research or they're guessing really well. But that says something to me as the receiver and I am probably more likely to open that. I mean, I think about it in my own life. The ones that are canned solutions I very rarely open unless they just guessed at the right time that they have a service that I actually need, which, what are the odds of that?  

 
26:19 
Tom Stanfill 
And that does work. Yeah. If they're looking for what you offer. Yeah, if, Mike, you know, if, I don't know why I've come up with copier, but if my copiers down and we need to buy a copier and you send an email that says we sell copiers.  

26:32 
Tom Stanfill 
Then I probably call it something different now. But yeah, that's going to work. You know, for sure you need legion services, whatever it is.  

 
26:42 
Scott Cassidy 
You know, I used to sell copiers.  

 
26:44 
Tom Stanfill 
And that's why you picked, that's probably what it was. That's where you started, then that's going to work. But, but most it's more effective than what we've proven is if you start and lead with the customer's point of view, that's the best way to position your email, your voicemail, your introduction, that's going to break through the clutter and that's going to drive up response rates.  

 
27:05 
Scott Cassidy 
That makes a ton of sense. Well, we have kind of summarized for you the three p's to drive, influence and receptivity. Tom, before we let them go, anything else that's kind of hanging out there like a hanging chad?  

 
27:19 
Tom Stanfill 
Well, I would say one other thing about point of view, and I think this may be even more important, is when you're interacting with somebody live and you want to change their beliefs, the first thing we need to do is validate their point of view. They need to know they need. So that is so counterintuitive. When someone says the exact opposite thing that you think they should believe about your solution or anything, our instincts is to say, yeah, but so true. Yeah, you know, your validate everything. Before my son wants to skip college and he wants to pursue a movie musical career, my first reaction, my instinct is to say, no, here's what you need to do. My first instinct is not to say, let's talk about that. I can see why you want to do that.  

 
28:15 
Tom Stanfill 
Tell me what your point of view is. But here's the principle. Until we validate the other person's point of view, they're never going to listen to our point of view. And so there's not only the idea that we need to articulate it when we're trying to get a meeting or we need to begin with because you, when we're trying to sell our solution, they need to know and feel that we validate the way they believe. There's a reason they believe what they believe, and until we validate it, they're not going to be interested in our point of view. So that's where we begin.  

 
28:43 
Scott Cassidy 
Such a good point. All right, excellent. We hope you guys are enjoying the podcast. Get out there and share it with your friends. Download and subscribe. Help us get this to as many people as we can. This is for you whether you sell for a living or help those who sell for a living. And we will see you in another week on sales with Aslan.