Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from EP. 192 No Pain, No Gain in Personal Growth

Listen to the conversation here:

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00:14
Scott Cassidy
Welcome back to another episode of Sales with ASLAN, your weekly therapy session for those who sell for a living and those who help those who sell for a living.

00:28
Tom Stanfill
Halls with beer in his hand.

00:30
Scott Cassidy
This is quite the visual image, a word picture you will never forget. But today we are going to talk about how we are all so passionate to grow ourselves, to grow into uncomfortable areas of our life and why there's such a painful process involved in that. Absolutely.

00:48
Tom Stanfill
Pain of growth today and what keeps us from growing and moving to the next level in our career or life. And sometimes we just have to push through.

00:57
Scott Cassidy
Yeah, we'll push through that for sure.

01:01
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

01:01
Scott Cassidy
I think this is a really valuable topic. I mean, a lot of times we get very technical with the selling part of the career. Sometimes we like to take a step back and talk more about the human elements of being a sales professional, being a sales leader, being a professional of any sort, just being a human. And I like this topic because I think there's so many of us that live in a comfort zone, a circle of convenience, if you will, that something or someone, perhaps ourself, needs to kind of push us through that. And so I think anything we can talk about here that helps people expand their own horizons would be useful. So let's do it. Let's get into it.

01:40
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I love it. Well, you know what I'd like? Probably most of our listeners have had to make some changes in how we communicate and sell and lead and influence and all the different roles that we have because of this virtual environment. I've had to deliver talks to large audiences. When I'm just staring at a camera in nobody's face. That was very uncomfortable. That was a growth for me. As you know, I've been doing a lot of writing. I just finished a book. That was a big stretch for me. My english teachers from high school or college heard that I was writing a book, they would go, they would be the biggest. What? And they would be accurate in their assessment of my potential. So a lot of these things, it was growth.

02:33
Tom Stanfill
It's like I'm moving out of my comfort zone, and I'm trying to grow and expand my abilities and grow and develop. And it's painful. And it's really got me to kind of go through some self reflection lately. Why is it difficult? What am I learning? And what have I learned from others about how to push through the barriers of growth and move to the next level? Because I think a lot of our barriers to getting to the next level are emotional. It's not just, hey, discipline. I got to do something. There's a lot of emotional barriers.

03:10
Scott Cassidy
Absolutely. I mean, who wants to step out on that ledge and potentially fail at something, right? Heck, I spent, I don't know, 22 years at Schneider Electric and was very happy there. And then when you absolutely begged me to come over here and help you, I was very Freddy scared. I was definitely Freddie scared of that. I was used to a little bit larger staff than what I have here. I'll tell you, it's been a growth opportunity for me. It really has. I mean, you think about the difference between maybe 2030 people on a team executing a huge budget to, oh, my gosh, I'm an army of one with a slightly smaller budget, and now I run all the marketing tools in Salesforce, and I had to learn a tremendous amount. And, boy, did I fail miserably.

04:06
Scott Cassidy
A couple of years ago, I would have fired me, by the way, but you were kind enough to keep me on.

04:10
Tom Stanfill
Well, I know you're joking, but, yeah, what you did is you put yourself outside. You moved outside your comfort zone. You said, I am now at the ripe age of, let's just say, 40.

04:24
Scott Cassidy
A little bit more, maybe.

04:26
Tom Stanfill
Give or take.

04:27
Scott Cassidy
Give or take ten years.

04:28
Tom Stanfill
Give or take ten years. You're saying I'm going to get way out of my comfort zone and move from managing a team, an organization, a large budget, to how do you drive a content strategy, and how do you help a small company grow? That was a major move for you. How do you help a channel? You were building a channel for Adam, which means you're going to have to learn something new. And so most adults don't like to learn how to roller skate at 40. So we stay in our comfort zone. And here's the problem. If we stay in our comfort zone, we're never going to get better at anything. I don't know. Thinking a lot about. Okay, why is this so painful? Why is it so painful to try something like speaking or maybe writing?

05:27
Tom Stanfill
Or maybe you're trying to develop your social chops and you're not getting the following, or you want to get a promotion, you want to move into a new role or whatever it is that you need to do or get better at. We shy away from that because it hurts so much to fail. It's not just time. The way I look at it, there's time and pain. If you want to get better at something, there's time that's required. But there's also pain. And how do we lessen the pain, manage the pain and work through that?

05:56
Scott Cassidy
Yeah, they used to say practice makes perfect. And to some degree, the more you practice, the closer to perfect you get. I had a baseball coach one time say, that's not true. Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes perfect. You have to really a. I think there's the desire. Gosh, how many times have we talked about desire on this podcast as it relates to rep development, but as ourselves, as we're developing, you have to really, a, want it. So you got to make that first leap of faith that I'm going to step outside my comfort zone and even try this and then B, live with the fact that there are going to be missteps and failures along the way. And that's all part of growth, which is why I love this subject.

06:36
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And I think that's really what we want people to walk away from this podcast with is. Okay, here are some tools and strategies that have helped us, either because we've experienced it and learn it from, like, me stepping out and writing a book. I mean, that was very painful to write something and then just get ripped apart. I remember one thing, like the first editor that I worked with, these basically in two pages highlighted every time I said the word insure. Okay, insure. Okay. It was like 25 times. And she just made me feel like an idiot. Why is that so then? Fearful. I don't want to write anymore. Right. I don't want to do this anymore. This is hard, really.

07:22
Tom Stanfill
What I'm saying is you're making me feel stupid and it makes me feel bad about myself, and therefore I don't want to do this anymore. I would rather go do the things that I'm good at and I get compliments for and stay in my comfort zone. But if I'm going to learn how to write, which I felt like that was what I needed to do, pain is part of the process. Feedback is part of the process. So why did it sting so bad when I just got feedback on how to be a better writer and my ability to comprehend it, or when I'm going to speak? Okay, I'm going to go out and I'm going to make a presentation, whether it's to ten people, five people, or it's to 1000 people. Why does it hurt so bad if I don't hit the mark?

08:02
Tom Stanfill
And why do I get so nervous? And therefore, if I get so nervous and I'm so afraid, then I don't do it or I don't do well or don't perform well because I. Performance anxiety or if it doesn't go well afterwards, I think, well, I'm never going to do that again. Yeah. So these are all the reasons that people stay in their comfort zone.

08:20
Scott Cassidy
Well, this happens in our personal lives all the time. And it just reminded me, like, I'm down here with my wife and we're kind of practicing snowbirding for a couple of months. Just getting on the cold weather job.

08:31
Tom Stanfill
By the way, you're doing a great job.

08:33
Scott Cassidy
I feel like I am. But here's where I failed. I am not a good scrabble player. I have resisted playing that game for my entire life, but she loves it. And so I said, sure, I will play Scrabble with you while we're down here. Tom, I have not beaten my wife in Scrabble in the 30 years that I've known her, ever. Not once.

08:54
Tom Stanfill
That's true.

08:54
Scott Cassidy
And we've played four or five times down here, and I have gotten smoked. And so I got upset the other night and said, I don't want to ever play this game again. And she said, rather than be upset about the fact that you're losing at this, why don't you look at it as an opportunity to expand your vocabulary?

09:11
Tom Stanfill
Exactly.

09:11
Scott Cassidy
And I was like, that's a good point. I mean, I have, like, a fifth grader vocabulary. I cannot get the triple word scores. I just can't get out.

09:22
Tom Stanfill
That's such a great example. That's such example. So why does it upset us so bad when we lose it? Why does it upset you that you lost and scrabbled to your wife or you constantly lose or somebody's better at using something, it's so painful. So therefore, we say, well, we're just not going to play, right? Yeah, I'm not going to play if I'm going to lose. Here's the reality. If we want to get better at something, we're going to lose, and we're going to lose more than we're going to win. And I think it goes back to what we learn in our childhood. And not to get freudian on us, but you just go back to high school. We learn that our performance equals our value. Right?

10:05
Tom Stanfill
We learn that, hey, if I do that well, people will give me love, I will get attention. If I don't do that well, I will not get a love or attention. And somehow we learn early that, hey, if I'm good at football, people will like me. If I'm bad at football, people will not like me, or if I'm good at this or if I'm attractive or it's all about my performance. So when we go to perform, especially when we're learning to perform something new, if I don't do well, it says a lot about who I am and my value, and that's painful if it doesn't go well. So you're not smart because you can't beat your wife and scrabble, right? That's what you can tell yourself. You can say, hey, I'm not, gosh, what's wrong with me?

10:50
Tom Stanfill
Or, why can't I do it like so and so? Or I will never be this way. Or, gosh, I suck. And it's the way that we process it is what keeps us from getting better. Because when I've studied the people that achieve amazing things, they are not amazing people. They've learned how to manage the process and the narrative and push through the pain and say, bring it on. One of the things I want to do, you just kind of pack this a little bit. I want to do a stand up comedian thing.

11:25
Scott Cassidy
Yes.

11:26
Tom Stanfill
I want to go to one of those shops where they teach you how to be a stand up comedian and they go, open mic. Not because I want to be a stand up comedian, but because I think it would help me learn how to speak more effectively, which is part of my job. Right. When the book's coming out, I'm going to need to speak more. I am scared to death at the idea of standing up in front of people and telling a couple of jokes. Yeah.

11:49
Scott Cassidy
What if I'm not funny? What if they throw something at me? Right?

11:52
Tom Stanfill
Why does that even matter? Like, if I stood up in front of 2030 or 40 people and I said, hey, I'm going to try a couple of jokes, and they didn't laugh or they booed. Why is that a big deal? Why didn't I just go, well, that wasn't funny. Whatever. No. I probably couldn't sleep for two weeks after that because.

12:10
Scott Cassidy
Timing was all off. That's not even funny. Yeah, that's so true. I did not realize that's what you want to do. Because we have talked about improv training for time. I think one of the hardest things I could ever imagine, just being up on stage and someone says, all right, make me laugh about a walrus.

12:32
Tom Stanfill
And you're, oh, yeah, I can't think of anything such a big deal. And part of it is because certain situations we put ourselves in, we attach meaning to it. If I'm in this situation? Oh, I'm going to speak to five people. Who cares? Oh, I'm going to speak to 50 people. What's the difference? There's no difference. The difference is how we interpret that. Because if we fail, what does it say about us? Or what message do we take away? So we've got to learn to manage that. So that's kind of what I wanted to share, is start with kind of what we've learned either from our own experience or from other people on how to manage that. Negative narrative is what I call it, the negative.

13:18
Scott Cassidy
I mean, I think it's a very interesting topic. And for those that are listening to sales with Aslam for the first time, where we put the emphasis on the ales, by the way, Tom, I want to make sure that's crystal clear.

13:28
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I think we've demonstrated that passion. We're not afraid of ales.

13:35
Scott Cassidy
All of this is designed to help us improve as humans as well as sales reps. So let's dive into maybe a few takeaways. Not takeaways, but a few reasons the negative narrative sort of exists. Let's give those bullets to these folks, and then maybe we can jump into some solutions or ways.

13:58
Tom Stanfill
I think we get into solution mode, like what to do about, again, kind of what we're doing. We're talking pretty conceptually, but all we're really saying is for you to get better and move to the next level, whatever it is, whether it's parenting, becoming better spouse, getting married, something you want to accomplish personally, a business you want to start, or getting better in sales or moving up, you got to get out of your comfort zone, and when you get out of your comfort zone, you're going to fail. And when you fail, there's pain. And so how do you manage that? And how do you manage what's going to happen to get out of comfort zone? And the first thing you need to do is fight the negative narrative. And here's the first thing I would say is negative narrative is I shouldn't fail. Right?

14:41
Tom Stanfill
I shouldn't fail. Okay, so this is the first time I'm going to do this. I'm going to deliver a talk virtually, or I'm going to do my first virtual presentation, or I'm going to do my first time I'm ever going to lead a meeting, or it's the first time I'm ever going to write a blog or an article or whatever it is. The first time I'm ever going to do stand up. How I'm going to judge myself is how that performance went. Like, okay, well, that went well. It should go well. And if it doesn't go well, I failed.

15:12
Scott Cassidy
Right.

15:12
Tom Stanfill
Therefore, I suck. And here's the reality. The negative narrative is you shouldn't fail means if you do fail, there's something wrong with you. No, you should fail. If you do something for the first time or when you start to move in this new direction and you try it for the first time, you will fail. Yeah. If you want to be a politician and you run for office, you will not get elected. You have to not get elected two or three times before you'll ever get elected. Failure is part of the process. If you go speak for the first time, it's not going to go well. Maybe you get lucky, but somewhere in there you're going to struggle. So that's the first thing the negative narrative is. I shouldn't fail. That's not true. That's a lie. Failure is part of the process. Yes.

15:54
Scott Cassidy
I mean, were you a good skier the first time you got up on skis? Some people. I mean, when you learn to ski as a kid, it's much different. I don't know if you've great if this idea of failure hasn't been ingrained in you yet, because I remember my first time skiing, and it was not pleasant the first several days, and I broke my leg in two places on the third day I ever skied. Yeah. So you talk about failure. That's pretty epic failure. But I spent my life skiing after that because I just loved it after that.

16:27
Tom Stanfill
You learned to ski. You're going to fall. Yeah.

16:29
Scott Cassidy
You are going to fall. You are going to fall.

16:30
Tom Stanfill
It's going to happen. Embrace it.

16:35
Scott Cassidy
Okay, good.

16:36
Tom Stanfill
Let's keep going. Another one that I believe.

16:39
Scott Cassidy
Okay.

16:39
Tom Stanfill
So these are negative narratives that I have to fight is, well, it should be easy. You know what? There's something wrong with me that it should be easier than this. It should be easier for me to learn how to write. If I were really a good writer and if I were really talented or if I really had what it takes, this would be easy.

17:03
Scott Cassidy
Right.

17:03
Tom Stanfill
And I had the great opportunity to watch somebody that I really hold in high esteem, who I think is probably one of the best communicator speakers that I've ever seen. They're on super successful at speaking, and it doesn't really matter the backstory. The point is I put them up on the highest pedestal I possibly could put them on, and their ability to communicate and speak. Okay. I'm behind the scenes. And watching this person in front of the camera, because all I ever see is the last take.

17:40
Scott Cassidy
Of course.

17:41
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I don't see the behind the scenes. Cut. Let me do it again. Cut. Let me do it again. Cut.

17:51
Scott Cassidy
Eyes rolling.

17:52
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I was behind the scenes with this person who I happened to know personally because I knew him when I was a kid and he failed over and over again. It wasn't easy. He had to do all the things that I have to do to prepare for that kind of moment. Like if I'm going to stand in front of a camera, which I've had to do many times, and record a 45 2nd thing, I thought a guy like him would go, oh, no problem, just give me the camera, just tell me what to say, I'll stand here and do it. He had to deliver it probably ten times to get it right. I'm like, that's awesome. So that the truth is, it's not easy. Now, there is something we need to keep in mind.

18:34
Tom Stanfill
There is a philosophy that, hey, you should do things that you love and you should do things that come easy to you. Well, generally that's true. There is like, I don't need to try to learn how to play basketball at my age or I'm never going to be a great musician or there are certain things that I'm just not wired to do. But in the areas where, hey, this is something I think I can get good at and it's part of my DNA and it's something I can get good at then to get good at, it's not going to be easy and I'm always going to have to work on it. Even if you're great, let's just stick with the idea of speaking. You're still going to have to prepare.

19:08
Tom Stanfill
You're still going to have to, in front of certain situation, memorize what you're going to have to say. You're still going to have to do all the things. It's never going to feel like, no problem, I'm going to get up and talk to 1000 people.

19:18
Scott Cassidy
It's so funny you bring that one up because I think both you and I derive some enjoyment out of being in front of the crowd virtually or in front of a real crowd. But I think you and I also share the same propensity to over prepare. And I think that's because of that fear of failure. Like, you're like, I cannot get up there and forget something. I cannot get up there and bomb. I have to be perfect, which I think that drive is healthy, but I think that we can probably be our own worst critics. And you never want to get to the point, what I'm taking away from this is you never want to get to the point where that limits your desire to try new things and keep growing, because then it would become a real negative.

20:04
Scott Cassidy
But a healthy desire to be really good with the balance of, I know it might not be perfect the first time is probably a pretty healthy way to think of that. Would you say?

20:15
Tom Stanfill
Yes, I think exactly. Because I think it's kind of what we're trying to communicate here is that it's how we think about this and how we interpret all this is what keeps us from. Maybe we move forward and push ourselves, but it's so painful to do it because of how we think about it. One of the negative narratives is, I am what I do. Yeah, right. What if you didn't really care what other people think? Think about that. What if you really didn't care? What if it didn't matter what other people thought about you? How free would you be? But what happens is like, well, if you don't like me, and by the way you talk about, you listen to people that are super famous, that have.

21:03
Tom Stanfill
Everybody knows their name, they worry about the same stuff, they still get stung by the negative reviews. But if you just could say, I don't really care about what people think, I'm not what I do, or I'm not going to be determined. My value is not going to be determined by other people's perspective of me. How free would we be to just go learn new stuff like children do?

21:24
Scott Cassidy
Yeah, think about that. That's a great point. I was just thinking, like, when I was a kid, my dad's like, I know you just played football in the fall, but go play hoops in the winter. I'm like, I don't want to play hoops. I don't think I'm tall enough to play hoops. Go play hoops and see if you like it. I love hoops. Right? And he's like, play baseball in the spring. And I know I'm using sports analogies, but at one point, I was playing four or five sports in the year. And you're trying it all, and you're good at some and you're not good at others, but at the end of the day, you stretched yourself and then by the time you get to high school, you pick one or two.

21:55
Scott Cassidy
And I think that's a valuable lesson that is taught at a very early age. Just try stuff as you get older. You can be more prescriptive with what those things you try might be.

22:07
Tom Stanfill
Great point. Yeah. So that kind of helps us stress sort of the negative narratives. I remember one time, if I had to kind of wrap all this up, I was really nervous about doing something. It was kind of an interview thing. I was going to be interviewed by somebody I had a lot of respect for. And I was talking to my family about it, and I was doing it with my wife and my daughter. It's a long story. I don't want to talk much about my world, but I was super nervous. My daughter in law asked me a real poignant question. She said, what are you so afraid of? And even though that sounds like a really simple question, it's like that totally. Yeah, I'm really afraid. What am I so afraid? And that's the bottom line, kind of over.

22:54
Tom Stanfill
Our narrative is like, if we can figure out what we're thinking about and attack the lies, then, yeah, our body might still feel the fear, but at least we're addressing it. And over time, that fear will go away and we'll talk a little bit more about how to do. But.

23:12
Scott Cassidy
Well, and you remember the Dale Carnegie book, how to stop worrying and start living, I believe was what it was called. And one of the primary things that I don't remember all of that book, but I do remember the feeling, know, what's the worst thing that could happen if I do this and then flash forward? Can I live with that? Then all the worry comes out of it. Right? Because I think as humans, we're prone to worry for whatever reason. And again, I think we've talked about a lot of them. We're worried about failure. But if you can say the worst thing that's going to happen is I'm going to bomb in front of a crowd of 100 people, right? And that means I might get fired. And you go, well, what would happen if I got fired? And you can live with.

23:58
Scott Cassidy
And I just painted the worst possible scenario, but the point is, if you take yourself through that exercise, that's what your daughter in law did. She said, what are you so afraid of? What's the worst thing that happens?

24:11
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, you know what I realized? I was worried about how that other person would judge me.

24:15
Scott Cassidy
Yeah.

24:16
Tom Stanfill
The person that I was going to do this thing with. I was worried that I wanted their respect. And so as I realized, I'm like, well, that's stupid. And funny. By the time the thing happened, because of that question, I was very free. So the takeaway from the narrative part is figure out what lies you're telling yourself and then attack those lies with the truth and take time. So don't just run from the situation. Figure out what's driving, you know, what's driving against the fear or the negative emotions, I would say is very deep.

24:56
Scott Cassidy
Tom, we are really deep.

24:58
Tom Stanfill
This is deep. This is deep. Well, it kind of just came out of this situation where I was really beating myself up because I didn't perform as well. But I realized I'm pushed myself out of my comfort zone, and I needed this. This is for me, Scott. I needed this session.

25:10
Scott Cassidy
This is a therapy session for you, not for our guests.

25:12
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Hopefully other people can help.

25:15
Scott Cassidy
That's good, though. It's good.

25:17
Tom Stanfill
The other thing kind of that I've learned in kind of evaluating what unlocks us from the bondage of not moving beyond our comfort zone is determining our motivation. So a lot of times our motivation is really about us, which is not going to sustain us. So, for example, I remember having a conversation with somebody about being an entrepreneur. And if the reason that you want to be an entrepreneur is you want to have more free time and you want to make more money, that's not going to sustain you. That's not motivation enough, and thus that's about you. But if the reason that you want to be an entrepreneur is because you're so passionate about solving a problem and it's really about serving others, that gets your focus off yourself and alleviate the fear.

26:13
Tom Stanfill
If my motivation is I want to speak and be effective at speaking or do stand up so people will like me more, then there's a lot at risk there. But if my goal and motivation is how do I help people learn something that can help them do whatever or make them happy because they're sad or whatever the motivation is, it's about other people. I can see my shoulders lower and I feel, okay, hey, I'm not worried about losing this deal because how I'm going to look in the company or the money I'm going to lose, I'm worried about they're not going to get the solution they need, and I need to help them solve their problem. And that's my passion, is to help them make a better decision. That helps.

27:01
Scott Cassidy
So much sense. So much sense. Absolutely. Yeah. This is fascinating, and I'm glad it's helping you. So let's bring it kind of around the turn for home here. How do we address, actually, is there any other things before we move to addressing this, there's one more thing.

27:24
Tom Stanfill
You think, yeah, here's probably the biggest takeaway is, I would say, is change what you measure when you're learning something. When you're moving out of your comfort zone and you're going to learn something new, don't measure the results like, okay, let's just stick with the speaking because it's kind of easy. Everybody. Okay, I'm going to try to learn how to speak or learn how to write or do something that's way outside my comfort zone, which means I'm going to fail. Don't measure the results. How many people downloaded the blog? How many people whatever, or how many people, did they embrace my recommendation at the end of my talk, or did I get the right scores because I decided I'm going to speak at a conference and I want to do that. I want to develop that. I want to be a thought leader.

28:18
Tom Stanfill
If the first time you go speak, don't measure your success by the scores you get at the end of the conference because they will score you. Measure yourself by three things. One, did you show up? Just show up. Measure yourself by, did you show up? Did I show up? Hey, I showed up. It's kind of like the american idol. Yeah, you measure yourself by saying, I got in front of the judges and I showed up. That's how I'm going to not did I get to Hollywood or get to the, I showed up and say, gosh, I showed up. I did all the things it took to get through those gates, to put myself out there and get in front of the judges, and that's how I'm going to measure my success.

28:56
Tom Stanfill
Maybe it turns out to be you're amazing and you get a contract or whatever, but that's one thing as a show. The other thing is, I would say, is measure yourself by defining and following your plan. In other words, with the results is like, did you come up with your plan? And here's what you're going to do. And did you follow a plan? Kind of back to me writing a book, okay, I'm going to hire a consultant. I'm going to hire an editor, I'm going to write a first draft, and I'm going to get blah. And so maybe all that leads to I don't eventually have a best selling book, but I'm going to come up with my plan and I'm going to follow my plan. And the other thing I would say is measure yourself by your willingness to get feedback and learn.

29:38
Tom Stanfill
Good. I did speak. And what's the feedback? Hey, I just did a thing with selling power for you. So you give me feedback and I say, well, okay, did I learn? I showed up, I learned, I prepped. I did all the things. So I was successful not based on scores or number of leads, but based on those things. And I think when you're first, again, moving outside your comfort zone, it helps to look at not the outcomes, but what are you doing to ultimately get those outcomes?

30:09
Scott Cassidy
It's the steps in between. I mean, I'm just back to the ski analogy were talking about earlier. You don't measure how many times you fall on the way down. You measure the fact that you got down the mountain, in some cases in a medical toboggan. But at the end of the day, I did make it down. It didn't die. And by the way, glutton for punishment. Kept going back until I became an okay skier. I think, what a great topic. Well, let's bring this thing home with any parting gifts we have for the group, any resources or thoughts you have on other places to help people think through how to continue to grow outside their comfort zone.

30:47
Tom Stanfill
Something I watched the other day that I thought was amazing, which surprised me. There's a jump video by Steve Harvey on YouTube. Okay. I loved it. And it's basically talking about getting out of your comfort zone. And he kind of captures what I heard Lionel Ritchie say again on American Idol. I'm a big fan of American Idol. I love stories. And Lionel Ritchie said to somebody, he said, life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

31:16
Scott Cassidy
Oh, I like that.

31:18
Tom Stanfill
I love. So Steve Harvey has this video really just about this topic, and it's great. It's much better than anything that I've said.

31:32
Scott Cassidy
Send them away.

31:34
Tom Stanfill
Well, they didn't know that until they got to this point. That's true.

31:38
Scott Cassidy
They've listened to.

31:40
Tom Stanfill
The other thing I would say in closing is, I would recommend that whatever it is that you want to do is go public. Go public with your plan. Now, I'm not saying you're going to go public with, I'm going to be a stand up comedian and travel the world and make millions of dollars, but just go public with what you're willing to try, what you're willing to test. I'm going to write 25 blogs, and I'm going to go public with that. I'm going to hire a coach. I'm going to do stand up, or I'm going to do something and just go public with. That's what I did with the book because I knew I needed that. And so I put myself out there and said, I'm going to write a book, I'm going to follow this plan.

32:22
Tom Stanfill
And I told the whole company that and damn it, I had to do it because I did.

32:28
Scott Cassidy
A sense of accountability, right? You've got somebody else that's not only holding you accountable because you said you were going to do it, but also helping you in some ways, right? To accomplish your good. That's good. Well, he is Tom Stanville. He is everything from a selling perspective that we ask for. And we are so happy you guys got to spend time on the couch with Tom, sharing his own therapy session.

32:54
Tom Stanfill
This is a therapy session.

32:55
Scott Cassidy
His own growth. Well, and that's good. That's why we have a beer and we just kick back on a Friday and we just talk about this kind of stuff. So very excited. I hope you guys got good value out of it. Make sure you share it. Download and subscribe to the podcast. Get it out to as many people as you can. We are never more fulfilled than we are helping others. This is how we try to help. We hope you are fulfilled in your career as sellers and those who help sellers. And we will see you in another week on sales with ASLAN.