Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from EP. 208 Mastering Discovery: How to Align, Engage, and Sell with Impact 

In this episode of Sales with ASLAN, hosts Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris demystify business discovery meetings, offering practical insights to help you hit your numbers and better serve your customers. They explore the challenges of shifting from product-focused selling to offering total solutions and the difficulties of engaging with higher-level executives. Tom and Tab highlight the importance of aligning with business goals, showing how effective questioning can demonstrate value to decision-makers. They emphasize the need for genuine curiosity and humility, fostering meaningful learning opportunities with executives.

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00:07
Tom Stanfill
Tab. Welcome back to the studio for another episode of how would Aslan Sell?

00:09
Tab Norris
Do we change the name?

00:10
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, well, you know. You know, we haven't really ever explained. You know, often we'll say we want to sell like Aslan. And so our podcast is called Sales with Aslan, which. Aslan's the name of the company, but it's really about selling like Aslan. How would Aslan sell, which is the character in Chronicles of Narnia who really embodies what servant leadership looks like, and which is why we name the company. So it's really. We're going to talk about on these podcasts, how do we sell like Aslan? So we're back in the studio to talk about some of the challenges that we see, because our goal is to serve our large and vast audience on how to help them make sales easier and more enjoyable. Tab.

00:53
Tab Norris
Yes. Not just easier, but enjoyable. I think that's.

00:56
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, yeah. It's like miserable.

00:58
Tab Norris
It should be fun.

00:59
Tom Stanfill
No, because when I'm. My goal is to help people. I like helping people. Right. When my. When I'm worried about my. My numbers and I'm worried about my. How I'm gonna look like, you know, I get it. Gave a speech yesterday, so I was nervous about it because what if I fail? You know, what if I don't look good? What if I. Those are all. Those are all selfish things. But when I'm. I'm like, when I reorient myself about how can I serve the people that are listening, what are they struggling with? How can I help? How can I leverage my years of experience doing this? So that's what it's all about for us in the studio.

01:32
Tab Norris
Yeah.

01:33
Tom Stanfill
For us helping our clients, but also for the reps that we're helping and also for, you know, what we do every day. I mean, that's just a great way to think about it.

01:44
Tab Norris
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

01:47
Tom Stanfill
So let's. So the topic du jour tab, as were preparing was this idea of we all. I mean, I can't tell you a time where I didn't meet with somebody, they didn't say the following sentence, which I wish I'd written this book. We need to get our reps to sell a solution. Right.

02:07
Tab Norris
We're great at selling a product, but we got to sell a total solution or whatever. Yep.

02:11
Tom Stanfill
We got to sell a total solution. Or, you know, it's whether it's somebody saying what the sales organization needs to better at or what a rep is saying or what a leader saying. But there's we all understand when we meet with people, if they buy our complete portfolio. Right, right. We, you know, the deals get bigger and you know, we. It makes it easier. Customer engagements, higher loyalty goes all the, everybody benefits. But, but that's not easy. And you know what have you seen tab as when you think about that challenge?

02:45
Tab Norris
Yeah, I mean there are a few. I mean one of the, you know, one of the big challenges I see is just getting out of people getting out of their comfort zone. I mean that can be a one first challenge. You know, people just kind of get set, they're comfortable, they kind of know how to do. They've kind of learned their favorite product or their favorite thing and it's just, it's real natural. They get passionate about it, they got it memorized, they know everything they need to say and it's just like it feels so comfortable.

03:21
Tom Stanfill
That's a really good point, isn't it?

03:24
Tab Norris
I mean, and this just feels great. And you know exactly how to do it, you know who to talk to, you know, all these things. And then it's like all of a sudden either and you know, either the organization says we want to start doing this or I know that in order to hit my number, I'm going to have to do this. So I think some of that like working through some of those challenges, I think that's one. And then the second biggest that I see is how do I talk to the right people? Like it feels like I'm used to talking to this level person to sell this product that I've sold forever.

04:04
Tab Norris
And now it seems like I'm going to have to go higher up in the organization to somebody else, maybe a different role that I'm not quite as comfortable working with. Maybe I'm going from a director level to now I'm getting into the C suite, maybe even senior VP or maybe a C suite level person. And it's just got different dynamics. So those are probably the two biggest.

04:30
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, I didn't really. Yeah. As I was prepping for this, I didn't really think about the comfort zone. But that is so true. We definitely align with you on moving upstream.

04:38
Tab Norris
Yeah, right.

04:39
Tom Stanfill
That's the biggest. You know, we typically. It's easier to talk to people who buy products and services.

04:44
Tab Norris
Right.

04:45
Tom Stanfill
You know, they're kind of the lower level people. And I don't mean they're not less important, but they're, they're lower in the hierarchy of the organization. There are more operations, end users they use the product. They like the product. They need the product. They're told to buy the product, and everybody wants to talk about the product.

04:59
Tab Norris
And we sell the product, and it's all great.

05:01
Tom Stanfill
Everybody. Very tangible. I. And they need things. Right. They talk about it. And every time I've written with reps, I'm thinking of back of like this. This company was selling to beer microbreweries. Like they were. No, what it was. They manufactured the equipment that microbreweries needed to have a microbrewery, like kegs and, you know, everything. And that's a hot thing. Hops. Yeah, I like the hops.

05:34
Tab Norris
Yeah, I know.

05:35
Tom Stanfill
We got two days. Hops and keg. Other than that, I'm sure there's a distribution system. Tab. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really remember all the equipment, but I remember, you know, they sold. They were working with this manufacturer, and, you know, this was an industrial distributor that was meeting with. And this part, they had a great conversation, you know, and it was all, you know, they were talking and they knew each other, and it was easy to talk about the products that they had on their list to buy. And it was. It was, you know, transactional, and it was great and fun. Well, so then the rep stops at the door of the general manager, and you could see that the guy, like, kind of was looking down at his desk, and he didn't really want to talk to the rep.

06:16
Tom Stanfill
And he goes, hey, how you doing? You know, you know, I'm just here, and if. I mean, it's not exactly what he said, but. And I'm here, and. And if you would. If you would like to talk to me, I'm here, I'm here. And there was probably something about, how you doing? Yeah, you know, I'm fine. As he didn't look up from his desk. And that's the guy that's running the organization.

06:44
Tab Norris
Yeah.

06:44
Tom Stanfill
And he was definitely not in his comfort zone.

06:47
Tab Norris
Yeah.

06:47
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

06:48
Tab Norris
Well, we. Yeah, we had an. I had a. I had a client very similar. They were used to selling at the product level. And I was. I was asking the senior leader who was bringing us in, what's the big challenge? You know, like, what's going on? He goes, yeah, well, they. They get. They get the meeting. Like, they're really good at getting the meeting, like, which is hard. And I said, well, gosh, that's awesome, because. So we thought, this is going to be easy. And then the reps walk in there, and they do not know what to say, you know, because they start talking about, you know, kind of the lower level things that they're so used to talking about and they think that person is going to light up and get all excited and they just are like completely disconnected. You're not speaking.

07:34
Tab Norris
They feel like it's like they're speaking Portuguese. Yeah, they're in there. In, you know, in Poland.

07:42
Tom Stanfill
I like the, That's a great analogy, Tab. The Portuguese to the Polish people. That. Yeah.

07:47
Tab Norris
Hard to do.

07:48
Tom Stanfill
It's hard to do. They don't. Yeah. And it's always like a PR meeting. Usually when the executives meet with the. Right. It's like, well, they told me to meet with you and it's like shaking hands, kissing, baby. Good to see you people. Thank you for all you're doing. I don't, I'm, I need to move.

08:05
Tab Norris
On because I don't even know why you're here in my office right now. Because you are bringing. No, you're not going to bring any value to me. Thank you for working with our organization.

08:13
Tom Stanfill
Which is why the real decision makers don't meet with sales reps because they don't have anything to say. The conversation isn't effective. It doesn't work. It's not good. It's. It doesn't help them.

08:24
Tab Norris
Right.

08:24
Tom Stanfill
So Tab, that really brings up kind of, I guess what we need to how we can help rep sell a solution. And I think what I'm hearing us say, if I distill it, the first thing is we need to shift from solution discovery, not solution selling. Right. But solution discovery to business discovery. I think that's first. And then we'll talk about how to move upstream and have what we call level two and level three conversations versus level one conversations, which is more the operations end user. But. So let's talk a little bit about. So it is in our comfort zone to have solution discovery, which is I'd like to ask you questions about the products that you're familiar with and the products that I'm familiar with and the products that you use or the products you might need.

09:09
Tom Stanfill
Because I sell copiers and do you have any need for copier? Right, that's familiar. But business discovery is a very different conversation. Any thoughts about challenges there or what you've seen out in the market?

09:25
Tab Norris
Well, yeah, I mean, it's. Because, I mean that's a very high level. I mean it could be a very high level conversation. And you know, you may, you know, my life experience, you know, as a rep, I may not. I've not been in that role. I came out of school and I started my first job and I was good and I'm selling products and I'm passionate and I'm really. I'm really persuasive and I've hit my quota and crushed it all the time. But I've never run a business and I don't hang out with people that run businesses. I don't really understand how it all connects. I've never had to. So I think that's really the thing. It's not that they just don't have the vocabulary. They don't have a comfort level. So I think all that.

10:12
Tom Stanfill
That's a great. That's a. I think that's a great setup. Because when you look at the levels in the organization as we talk about it, there's level one, which is the end user, kind of the end users, which. Why it's comfort. They use what it is that we sell. They're the end user. Right. But then there's the department heads, which we talk about level two, these are the people that are running their division, their department, their teams or whatever. They have more responsibility. They're not just users. They actually have to lead a team, a leader department, lead a division. And then there's level three. That's the executives. They run the entire organization, whether it's the entire business unit or the whole company. That's the way that I think of it.

10:55
Tom Stanfill
And so we have solution discovery at level one, but business discovery needs to happen at level two and three. And level two, you can sometimes have a little dissolution discovery because they use it too. They're a little closer to it.

11:13
Tab Norris
It's kind of.

11:13
Tom Stanfill
But I think the big picture is if I'm going to just have changed my discovery and sell a solution, I have to have a business discovery meeting, which is all about what's not. Forget about the products.

11:26
Tab Norris
Right?

11:26
Tom Stanfill
Right. Forget about the. Some people sell hundreds of products or thousands of products. Forget about the products. What is going on at the business level? What are you trying to accomplish? Let's rise above what it is that I sell. You have a whiteboard. This is the way I always think about it. You have a whiteboard, you have a destination, and you're, by the way, going to get judged based on reaching that destination. And by the way, the judgment might be real fatal. Right. It may cost your job, but we're going to measure you and you're going to sit down with somebody at the end of the year and they're going to respond to you and you have pressure and stress related to that destination. Now you've got a plan to get there. I may be.

12:07
Tom Stanfill
Some of my little products that I sell might be part of that plan. But you have a plan and a strategy to get there. And I think the key word strategy because that's. We're going to talk about that later. So we're going to talk about that and then I'm going to step back and see how my solutions can help you get there. And that's the difference between solution discovery and business discovery. And I think people just struggle with that tab probably because like you said, they're not comfortable.

12:34
Tab Norris
No, yeah. That's just. You're speaking a different language.

12:39
Tom Stanfill
No prepping for this. I thought about a meeting that I was on a couple years ago. And this company sells analytical equipment. So basically anything that you want to analyze, they sell the equipment that will analyze the air quality. Just anything you want to analyze. I mean they have maybe, I don't know if it was a thousand, I think it may be 200 products. Right. And so they're meeting with Disney and they're meeting with the worldwide head of safety for Disney. I'm on this call.

13:12
Tab Norris
Okay.

13:13
Tom Stanfill
They buy a $10,000 product that measures the air quality, I guess in certain parts of the, of a park or. I don't even know that.

13:23
Tab Norris
Mickey Mouse's house. I don't know. I'm gonna go with that.

13:27
Tom Stanfill
The taco shack. Yeah. A roller coaster. I don't. It was this, you know, it's the size of a computer. It's small at $10,000 and that's what they measure. And they were talking to the worldwide head of safety and there was other people on the call, but you could tell the worldwide head of safety was not really that engaged. And they were Talking about this EM7 product and how it was aging out. And I don't know if I got the product name or Right. And they were talking about what else, you know, is it working and do you need to replace it? And it was a very product centered discussion and the meeting beforehand, it was all about how can we sell them this system to manage all the air quality of the park.

14:07
Tom Stanfill
But you know, that was kind of, we kind of introduced, we talked about the quality. You know, how's the Pro, how's the $10,000 products working? And, and then we'll, you know, then it kind of at the end it's like, well, we also have this other system being, keep in mind, be aware, we have this other system that maybe could manage all the air quality and we could monitor it for you and keep that in mind. And it was like it was fine and they were client, it was no big deal. But they had the worldwide. So they had a very much a product discovery solution discovery meeting. But they didn't have a business discovery meeting because what they needed to do is say what is, what are you working on? You are head of worldwide safety for Disney.

14:53
Tom Stanfill
What is it that you're trying to accomplish? Where are your gaps? What, what is going on? What's, what's on your whiteboard? What are you trying to accomplish? And then we'll come back and see how we can help you achieve those results. They were, they were stuck at a product level discussion.

15:06
Tab Norris
Oh yeah. And, and film. They may never have that meeting again.

15:11
Tom Stanfill
I mean they probably will. That person won't be there. Exactly.

15:17
Tab Norris
You think about this is the part that's so hard. And you think even if you, because you hear this too, I don't know if you hear this, oh, I can always meet, you know, they love me, you know, I can always get back in there, you know, no problem. Well, that is not always true. I mean that may have been your one chance. That may have been the opportunity that you had to really get their attention, have, you know, really have some time to do some exploration. And we just can't take it. We just can't take that for granted.

15:47
Tom Stanfill
That, that is a really good point. Yeah. That's the way that I look at it is you, if you don't add value, if you do get to the level two and level three and you move upstream and you don't demonstrate that you belong there, then you're not going to get back. Because that's why the executives don't meet with sellers. Their real decision makers don't meet with sellers because they're busy. They got stuff to do. They're trying to solve problems and either you can help them do that or you can't. Which leads us really to a nice transition tab to how do we operate at level two and level three? And as you know, the key is asking, and I think of it this way is positioning the right questions. Yeah, we need to position the right questions.

16:32
Tom Stanfill
The right questions are level two and level three questions. Because if we ask level one questions about product based question, how's the analyzer working?

16:41
Tab Norris
It's analyzing.

16:42
Tom Stanfill
It's analyzing. I don't know. Ask Sam. I don't know. If we ask level one to level two people, they think we belong at level one. But if we ask level two questions to level two people, then they think we belong there. If we ask level three questions to level two people, then they feel more comfortable sponsoring us to level three because they think we belong there. And they don't know the answers to those questions. They're like, you might belong there. So you demonstrate where you belong based on how you. And the key is position the right questions. The questions tell people who you are. So we got to learn those types of questions. What tab is there any go to questions that you have when you think about moving upstream and demonstrating that you belong there?

17:26
Tab Norris
Yeah, I mean what I like to ask is, I'm sure you do the same thing, but I'll always like, let's just talk. I mean a lot of times you're talking to that mid level person and you can ask the question of, you know, I know you guys are looking for this or you're thinking about this and blah, blah. Tell me a little bit about the longer term strategy, like how is this fitting in with the kind of the, this divisions or this, you know, whatever. Let's just say it's a huge company. It's the divisions initiatives, you know, where does this rank in priority and how does this fit in with, you know, what's happening there? Something like that. And I'm amazed you learn real quickly they go, oh, great question.

18:13
Tab Norris
And they start talking or oftentimes if you're at that mid level, they're like, you know, I don't know. My task is really just this, you know, I'm really focused on. I've kind of been fed down to me that I need to get this done. Then you can always follow up, you know, with, you know, I would love to connect is there. Who, who would be that person? I would love for the three of us to, you know, to jump on a call together just to make sure that we, you know, whatever we talk about will fit in with that long term initiative.

18:42
Tom Stanfill
You know, something like that. I love that. I love that. That is, that's what I was going to say as well is that I think every. I heard Tony Robbins. I've never listened to anything Tony Robbins has done. I have no opinion of him. Seems like he has some wise things to say. I guess. He's got a big following.

19:01
Tab Norris
He'll get you fired up.

19:02
Tom Stanfill
He'll get you fired up. I've heard about people walking on calls. That's all I know about Tony Robbins. And he probably makes a Ton of money. Very compelling. He seemed very compelling. But I remember reading this quote, I don't know what magazine I was reading. You read this quote, he says everybody I know that's successful has a strategy. And that really stuck with me. Everybody's got it. It's successful, has a strategy. And that is true. They all have a thing. They've all. And if we're talking to people who've moved up the ladder, there's a reason they've moved up the ladder. Something works for them and they by the way, aren't changing it. They've, they've made, think about it. They've made a bet. They've made a bet. And this is, their career is dependent upon this bet.

19:43
Tom Stanfill
And some people will most like I've never seen anybody really change the bet. Their strategy. Like this is what's got me here. And this is what we say to, you know, our people is like if someone believes that they can get, be successful by not training their people, sales training company and some people we work with, if you work with the C level people or EVPs, and they say, look, our strategy is to hire the right people, tell them what to say and do what we tell them to do. And that's our strategy. They're not changing that strategy. Training will never, equipping and training and developing people will never be part of their, their DNA. It's not who they are. Right. They've got a strategy. And by the way, I'm not saying it doesn't work. Right.

20:26
Tom Stanfill
That's just they figured out a way to whatever. And so I found that strategy question, I remember reading meeting with the CEO of Corbis who was the only company owned by Bill Gates other than Microsoft. This guy reported to Bill Gates and so I met with him and by the way, the first thing he asked me what he wants to know is what's happening in the market. Great way to add value because they're in a little, they're enclosed in their little world. They don't get to talk to a lot of people out in the market. They don't know what's happening.

20:58
Tab Norris
You say that I get, the higher I go, I get that all the time. What are you seeing? What are you seeing in the marketplace? Because they know we work with organizations that are all over the world and. Yeah, but only higher level strategy people ask that. Mid level people in lower level people will never ask me that.

21:17
Tom Stanfill
They want to know that they can't. As a CEO of A big company, they can't go, hey, what do you, hey, you work for another company and nobody talks to him. Right? Everybody in their organization probably says what they think they're supposed to say. And that's. He was very like, what do you know? What, what do you know that I don't know? And by the way, I better know something. He doesn't know about what's happening in the market. But the other thing I ask him, and this is why I say positioning the right question. I think I want to circle position because they expect us to ask questions, right? Like, you know, what's your plan?

21:52
Tom Stanfill
What's your goals, what you're, you know, they may even expect the strategy and they might be interested in answering that question, but they're really only interested if they think they're talking to somebody who has. That's going to be an interesting dialogue, right? Like, this isn't somebody who's just going to go, okay, whatever. And the key to helping them see that it's worth the effort to have a conversation or worth the time is the way we position it. So, like, if I'm talking strategy, I'll say there's four, there's five go to market strategies. Right. You know that, you know, I'm. It to me, it seems to me, is innovation is your strategy. Tell me more about that. Is that, am I right or. But I also know go to, you know, your go to market might be your key strategy to grow your business.

22:33
Tom Stanfill
So how you position it gets them to helps them see. Oh, you, oh, wait, you're not the typical. This might be interesting. Okay, let's, let's engage.

22:45
Tab Norris
You know something, you're actually not just a salesperson.

22:48
Tom Stanfill
It's going to talk about a product. Right? Right. Yeah, that's really good.

22:53
Tab Norris
It's good. And I think, you know, just, I need to be more prepared. I mean, I think about. There are certain meetings that I need to be more prepared for that kind of conversation. Yeah, I don't think, you know, you really do have to think about it. Don't get caught.

23:09
Tom Stanfill
You've definitely got to prepare. I, I got lucky once I was sitting next to the president of Ritz Carlton Company. So I'm like, I mean, it was, had nothing to do with me. I just happened to be at this luncheon, he was speaking, I happened to be at the. Seated next to him, and I happened to know a little bit about his business and I happened to know a little bit about the hotel Business. And I happen to be a little fascinated. I think being curious is helpful. And so I had that you and I were working together at the time and we had a hundred part time people making phone calls for us at ES2. Right. You were, you were training them. So we had all these.

23:50
Tom Stanfill
But you know, and I remember this is so hard to help, so hard to hire part time people and get quality, you know. And so I'm like fascinated, like. So I said, I gotta believe that the staff that you have determines your loyalty, which determines your value, which determines repeat customers, which determines everything. And he's nodding. I go, how the hell do you get your hourly workers to say the things that you get them to say and treat people like ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen. Serving ladies and gentlemen. And to communicate the way they do. It's amazing. How did you pull that off? I mean, he lit up. I mean he literally. They had to enter. He went off and started talking about that I'd hit a nerve, right. And he started talking about. He was so passionate.

24:39
Tom Stanfill
He used to be one of those people.

24:41
Tab Norris
I got it.

24:42
Tom Stanfill
And he used to be the person that served, ladies and gentlemen. And he, that's how he started the hotel business. He was a busboy and he started talking about. They literally had to interrupt him to get him to give his speech because he wanted to answer that question and didn't have anything to do with me other than the fact that I asked the right question. And I think we can do that. But it also helps you see that if we, regardless of how successful somebody is, if they want to talk about what they want to talk about, if they feel like they're talking to someone who really can operate at that level, they're passionate about it. They have something they're passionate about.

25:18
Tab Norris
Yeah, yeah. And that is what they like to talk about. So I just, I feel like if you're prepared and you're comfortable, it is much more enjoyable to do business discovery, at least for me. You probably feel the same way because that's what people get fired up about. You know, this is what we're doing. This is how we're going to get there. This is our strategy. These are all the components. This is, this is what's missing. And all they want to talk about it.

25:45
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, they do, because it's their whiteboard.

25:48
Tab Norris
Right.

25:49
Tom Stanfill
But I think the key is we can get, we can understand. So let's just, let's talk about two revisits, kind of a, two big concepts about having business discovery with the right people. If we think about a bridge, right. Which is what their whiteboard is. Right. They have. They have a destination. Right. Then they've got a plan to get to their destination. It's a bridge. They're at a current state. They have a desired future state. They're going to build a bridge to get there. And then they have a strategy. That is it. Right. And if you can ask great questions and demonstrate that you have some insights as you're asking those questions. So you're positioning those questions. I know that you currently have this strategy in place, and to me, it seems like the market is moving in this direction.

26:34
Tom Stanfill
I'm curious to see if that strategy is going to continue to do. Are you going to continue to make that bet? They're like, okay, I'm talking to somebody. Okay, they will start talking about that then. The second thing I think we need to do to have effective discovery at this level two and level three is have our own questions. That tells us their strategy is sound, their plan is sound. That's how you build value with executives. As you ask questions that get them to think right. You say, okay, so I know that your current strategy is this, but you're also having a problem with logistics. Covid just happened. You've got a problem with supply and demand. You're not getting the product. And your strategy is this. How are you going to address that? Well, that's a very interesting question.

27:22
Tom Stanfill
We've got a meeting next week about that. Would you like to join? So it's knowing what's happening and knowing what the potential problems could be. And how do we load that tab? How do we know that? We know that because we basically have been meeting with other people and learning from other level two and level three people. And we're listening and we're learning and we're curious. And now we become the smartest person in the room because we have access to how many? A hundred decision makers that are similar? They have access to one or two they might join. I mean, they love paying to join these little groups where they can talk to three or four people like themselves. Yeah, right. But if you've got access to hundreds of decision makers or how many you can be, you can have.

28:03
Tom Stanfill
You can offer a lot of insight and wisdom.

28:06
Tab Norris
Yeah. And that's what I encourage. Like if I'm working with younger salespeople that are a little bit neck, they have the comfort zone challenge.

28:14
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

28:14
Tab Norris
I just encourage them to be a learner. Just be a learner for a little while. I mean, you're still making, you know, you're doing fine selling. It's your comfortable spot. But be curious, you know, learn. Learn things. You know, read. And I know I'm getting. I'm kind of throwing out some ideas here, but, you know, read what people are reading. I mean, you know, if they're going to certain conferences, anything you can do to gather any data around the type of people that you work with. And then I just encourage them to be super curious and to learn and don't be afraid because they're like, what if they asked me, Start asking me questions. That's okay. Just be straight up, be honest. I don't know. I was just very curious.

29:06
Tab Norris
I do have other people in my organization that have a lot more experience with that. You can always fall back on that. And trust me, your manager or somebody within your organization would love to support you and help you if you need to have another conversation at a higher level that you're not equipped for. I think being a learner is key.

29:26
Tom Stanfill
That's great, Tab, because that connects back to. Your number one challenge is getting out of your comfort zone. And that's something that people tell me all the time is the reason they don't ask those questions is because it might lead to a conversation they're not comfortable having and they may feel stupid. Yeah, right. Which is why we do want to prepare. But it's okay. You like, if we sincerely want to learn, people want to help us. I remember my father taught me this appeal to people's conscience. Like, I'm not here to sell you something. I'm here. You know, when you move into this part of the conversation, if you're going to start asking a couple of questions and I just say ask two or three questions to everybody you meet with.

30:02
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, everybody meet with about what they do that's outside of what you sell. Like, what does your life look like? What is it that. And I know that's the old question, what keeps you up at night? Which. But that's kind of scratching. That itch is like, what is it that. Where, where do they feel like they, you know, what's their bet? What's their strategy? What's their difficult. What are they confident in accomplishing, how they get there? Tell me your story now. Again, they can't be busy, busy and trying to leave. And they're not looking at their watch and the meeting's over. And the body language tells you that. But you're looking for that opportunity to ask one or two questions that you know. And I've found that people have always responded to that. It's like, how'd you get here?

30:44
Tab Norris
Yeah. You know, people love to answer.

30:47
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, yeah. Like, so you used to be like, I work with a guy that is head. It was head of sales, moved from accounting. And this is the key. You got to be genuinely interested. Like I was told by tab on a podcast, asked this question. No one cares about that question. Right. But if I'm generally interested, you came up through accounting and finance and now you're the group president or you ran sales and now you. What is, what's your thing? So. Yeah, yeah, because. And by the way, you're curious. You're saying, well, I'm meeting, every time I'm meeting with the people in this role, they came from a certain. Okay, so there must be something about this role. These people are more operational minded than they are, you know, marketing minded. What does that tell you?

31:27
Tom Stanfill
You just, it's about, like you said, tab. It's a being curious. And the people that I've seen that have become super successful were curious when they were, when they started.

31:37
Tab Norris
Yeah.

31:37
Tom Stanfill
You know, like the guy worked with a loan officer when were all loan officers. Stupid 20 year old loan officers just selling mortgages. That guy, the guy that ended up becoming CEO of that company was meeting with the director of marketing and he was like the guy that was figuring out the interest. Why? I'm like, why are you talking to him? I wonder how it works.

31:55
Tab Norris
I'm gonna run this company someday.

31:56
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. And maybe you want to be in sales for the rest of your life and that's noble. But if that's true, then we got to be students of the people we serve.

32:10
Tab Norris
And I think we have lots of listeners. Just if you that are right, we're right here. Like, they, you know, they're ready for the challenge. You know, they know they can improve. They're really good at what they do, but they know there's this new horizon, another horizon out there. And so maybe this will be a trigger to encourage some people to step out of their comfort zone a little bit and just try.

32:37
Tom Stanfill
And all I would do is remember, all you gotta do to have that meeting and to learn a little bit more is just ask. So if you just went to like, at the end of that meeting, you're meeting with the worldwide director of safety and your number one division is health and safety, and you're meeting with the head of one of the biggest companies in the world and you say, hey, listen, I really. This is what I do for a living. This is what we, our company does for a living. If. Would you take 15 minutes and educate me on what it's like to be the head of the world rights safety for Disney? I would love to ask you two or three questions and I promise you it'll be 15 minutes. Would you do that? I. They'll say yes.

33:19
Tom Stanfill
If they say, unfortunately, I've not, or they blow you off and say, we'll send me an email. Fine, then send them an email. And they never respond, that's okay.

33:27
Tab Norris
But if you never, if you ever hurts to ask.

33:30
Tom Stanfill
But they'll say yes.

33:31
Tab Norris
They probably will.

33:34
Tom Stanfill
If you're humble. Yeah, they'll say, I mean, not everybody will say yes, but if they don't say yes, they'll want to say yes because they remember what it's like to be that person. And that's how they, by the way, that's how they got there is they learned. Right. So you're reminding them of who they were when they were young.

33:54
Tab Norris
Yeah.

33:55
Tom Stanfill
I love this episode tab a lot. Well, I should say. I love that sounds a little egotistical. I love this topic. I love you. I love you. And love the. Okay, we can love the episode.

34:06
Tab Norris
I mean.

34:06
Tom Stanfill
Okay. Is that okay? Okay.

34:08
Tab Norris
We're gonna do that.

34:09
Tom Stanfill
Okay. Well, good to see you. I hope this was helpful. Thanks, everybody for joining us for another episode. And as we always say, tell us how we're doing, give us feedback, comments, tell us what you'd like to talk about and we will continue to read those and it will drive what we talk about here at Sales with Aslan. Thanks. Good to see you, Tab. Thanks for joining me, my friend.