Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from EP. 207 Mastering the Three C's in Sales: Connect, Contrast, and Convince

In this episode of Sales with ASLAN, hosts Tom Stanfill and Mark Lamson tackle the key strategies sellers need to succeed in today’s competitive market. They introduce the "Three C's"—Connect, Contrast, and Convince—as essential pillars for elevating your sales game and overcoming the challenges of distracted, overwhelmed buyers.

Listeners will learn how to Connect their solutions to the buyer’s specific needs, tailoring their message to address what matters most. Discover how to Contrast your offering against the competition and highlight what makes it unique, ensuring your message cuts through the noise. Finally, master the art of influence by learning to Convince with emotional storytelling, success stories, and vivid analogies that resonate with buyers on a deeper level.

 Whether you're navigating virtual meetings, long sales cycles, or complex buyer behaviors, this episode offers actionable insights that will help you stand out, build trust, and close more deals. Tune in to gain practical tips and strategies to master the Three C's and elevate your role as a trusted partner in today’s fast-paced sales landscape.

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00:07
Tom Stanfill
Okay, I'll call you Mark. Thank you for that. Making me feel comfortable. I love that you're filling in for Tab. I'm kind of mad at tab right now. For our regular listeners, they know that.

00:22
Marc Lamson
Usually he's on a work trip. He's on an international work trip.

00:27
Tom Stanfill
That's what he tried to say.

00:29
Marc Lamson
He said it.

00:30
Tom Stanfill
He's with client. What I think he's doing is he's playing golf in Ireland.

00:33
Marc Lamson
No, I know he's playing golf in Ireland because he texted me and say, look at me on the golf course in Ireland. So.

00:39
Tom Stanfill
Oh, he did. You have to ask for him to text you. Cause I asked to add, I had to ask him to text me and tell me how he's doing. He said it. Said it's freezing and the wind's blowing 50 miles an hour. I can't tell you that I was too upset about that, Mark.

00:52
Marc Lamson
Very very hard to find sympathy for him.

00:54
Tom Stanfill
But regardless of whether Tab was on a work trip or not, I'm glad you enjoy you're joining me about this because I know you have a lot of passion about this topic.

01:02
Marc Lamson
Were you and I, plus somebody else was available that you asked. So I mean it's, you know, you told me like 2 hours ago, you.

01:08
Tom Stanfill
Said, look, it's not true. This podcast has been, is, we have these topics planned years in advance. Years in advance. Our editorial calendar is packed. But you know, both of us have been doing a lot of research because of some writing that we're doing about what's changing in sales and the challenge of sales. And I, you know, kind of prepping for this podcast. I was reading through Salesforce's sort of state of sales and it's, it just continually, or reps are continually reporting that it's harder to hit their number. And I think 67% of the reps in the last salesforce survey said they won't hit their number. They're worried about hitting their number. I think the manager's number percentage was higher. Yeah, I won't hit their number in 2020.

02:03
Marc Lamson
Well, the Salesforce.com publishes regular the state of sales or they call it a report every year. They're obviously connected to a lot of sales people. 89% of salespeople are burnt out because it's getting harder. Burnt out of selling, yeah.

02:22
Tom Stanfill
Why do you think it's getting harder? I mean I have, I mean you and I probably share the same thoughts, but we haven't talked about. What's your opinion on that?

02:29
Marc Lamson
Yeah, there's a couple of drivers, but I think it boils down to two things. When we look at sellers, I mean, buying, selling is harder because buyers are harder because of two things.

02:47
Tom Stanfill
One is buying and buyers have changed.

02:49
Marc Lamson
Yeah. So one is they're just busy. Like, everyone's so busy. People are running around.

02:55
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

02:56
Marc Lamson
Is it okay to say, like, a chicken with their head cut off? I don't understand.

02:59
Tom Stanfill
I think that's okay.

03:00
Marc Lamson
Okay.

03:03
Tom Stanfill
But they're still alive. If chicken. A chicken good. A chicken that's had a good life.

03:08
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

03:09
Tom Stanfill
Chop their head off.

03:10
Marc Lamson
Yeah. And that's right.

03:11
Tom Stanfill
That's what's important. They've had a good.

03:12
Marc Lamson
So people are just. People are just, you know, people I talk to that I sell to, they say, I'll get in touch next week. And they don't. I send a follow up and they say, I'm sorry. I've been so busy. People are just flipping, going 100 miles an hour. Here's the bigger problem, I think I'm going to call it. I've kind of been playing around with calling it the mayonnaise problem. Have you heard of the mayonnaise problem before?

03:36
Tom Stanfill
No.

03:38
Marc Lamson
Are you worried where this is going?

03:40
Tom Stanfill
But I am thinking of a commercial I've seen about some pro quarterback about the mayonnaise.

03:45
Marc Lamson
Have you bought mayonnaise recently at a supermarket? Have you gone and bought.

03:49
Tom Stanfill
I personally have not bought mayonnaise.

03:50
Marc Lamson
Okay, so this is important. Your developmental activity in the next two weeks is to go out and buy a jar of mayonnaise. I happen to find myself in need of a jar of mayonnaise.

04:02
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

04:03
Marc Lamson
At the supermarket, there are 40 versions of mayonnaise. There's jars, there's bottles, there's spread, there's squeeze, there's light, there's dark, there's. With relish, there's mayonnaise with no mayonnaise in it. Real, true story. This is a mayonnaise less mayonnaise. What is that?

04:22
Tom Stanfill
I know. It's like cream with no fat in it. I'm like, then what is in it? If this cream has no fat in it, I'd like to.

04:30
Marc Lamson
Dairy creamer. Non dairy creamer.

04:33
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

04:33
Marc Lamson
Here's the deal. There are so many options today. People are overwhelmed with options. And as a seller, I'm just another managed jar. I'm just more noise. And if people are just paralyzed with options, I feel like the market is flooded with so many things, and therefore it's just hard.

04:55
Tom Stanfill
Well, and it doesn't end. It's across the board. It's hard to separate. Yeah, we have so many options when we do want to buy something, but then we also have all this noise happening. I was reading in the Forbes recent report that they were talking about what's changed in buyer behavior in b two b markethead. And the amount of, the increase information has increased in last 13 years by 74 x that a customer's attention span has dropped to 8 seconds. There's also like, it's become more complex. Like more people are involved, people are moving faster, therefore sales cycles are lengthening. And I think a lot of it has to do with not only the amount of information, but also moving to virtual.

05:42
Tom Stanfill
Like, because there's just sort of, you're kind of always, I don't know if you feel this way, but I'm having a lot of meetings, but I don't quite get it done. Like, you know, you're kind of, you need. Okay, well, that, well, let's just have a short meeting. And I think the mentality is let's have a lot of short meetings versus long meetings. Well, the problem is you move from meeting to meeting and then you kind of lose track of what you've talked about. You don't quite get all the information you need, so you just keep things, it's somehow spread out like we used to, you know, and four or five years ago, we would go on site for a day and get to know a client and then have a three hour presentation. And this is sort of part of our process.

06:19
Tom Stanfill
That does not happen anymore.

06:20
Marc Lamson
No, no. For, for people who have moved from on site to virtual, everybody has a hard stop. Hard stop. I have a hard stop. It's easy to have a hard stop. Click leave, and I'm out. Versus, we're talking, you're like, I'll go to my meeting later. It's just, it's, yeah. The selling environment is tough. And, and what we're talking about today, which is kind of persuading influence and convincing, you know, good old fashioned product demos. I mean, we don't sell a product. We sell service people. Lots of people sell products, things. I mean, you know, if you sell software, great, you can let them have a log on. But I think you sell something just to walk in with it. Here, look at this. Touch this. Feel. This is what we're selling.

07:07
Tom Stanfill
That's a really good point. It's harder to get people emotionally connected, which could be your limitations of selling virtually. But it's also, they're reading their, I mean you can, the number of time I've been talking to somebody who have glasses on and you can tell or they'll turn their screen, I mean, or you've been in a situation where you got ten people on the calls and everybody's screen turns off.

07:32
Marc Lamson
I'm like, yeah, that's tough.

07:34
Tom Stanfill
I mean it's just, it's tough. So we're agreeing, it's harder. So the point of this is your, as you mentioned, is we got to elevate our game. We've got to elevate our game. Yes. AI is here and that is going to eliminate some of the mundane activities that sellers have. It's going to make us more efficient, but we still have to influence, we have to change people's beliefs. We have to get them to see something they didn't see before. And it's getting harder to do that. So we can't just lean on the old models of, you know, features, advantages and benefits. Right? Beat. We got it, we got it. We got to get creative in how we communicate. We've got to, we've got to elevate our game and kind of master some advanced skills.

08:18
Tom Stanfill
And as you said, that's the point of our talk or meeting today or podcast. And I think a lot of the mistakes that we make, and I want to see if you agree with this is where reps typically start a conversation. And I do mean to frame this up in the presentation mode. Like we've been through the process of understanding what their needs are. You know, we've met the players, hopefully, and now we're about to say, this is our recommendation. I'm going to talk about how we can help you. And when they do that, I see some consistent mistakes because I think they're leaning into the old way where I, people will ask more questions or they'll touch it or, you know, they'll look at it or they'll ask, you know, it seems they're more engaged and now it's like, go.

09:04
Tom Stanfill
And if it's, and by the way, they might have been meeting with you from ten to eleven, the next company. From eleven to twelve, the next company. I mean it's, it's moving. Yeah. So what do you typically see? What mistakes do you see when reps are beginning their present? And I'll call it a presentation.

09:25
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

09:26
Tom Stanfill
Again, it could be very informal, one to one. But it's like, hey, let me set, let me sell you on what I think you need.

09:31
Marc Lamson
Yeah, yeah. Pitch. Whatever we want to call it.

09:34
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, whatever you want to call it.

09:35
Marc Lamson
Yeah. And to be clear, I think for our audience, I would say to me, we're talking about a recommendation, not our value proposition, not our, hey, what did your company do? Your elevator pitch? That's a thing. That's a thing that, but we're talking about after you've talked to a customer for a period of time and you're ready to make a recommendation or you're ready to suggest what they should buy and why they should buy it. And those can. And they're. And let's just assume they're open to it.

10:03
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that's why they could get closed. Yeah, they start open.

10:07
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

10:08
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, let's assume they, yeah, let's assume they're open, but, yeah, let's assume that.

10:11
Marc Lamson
That's a whole nother another topic for another day. But when I list my research is two places, listening to our clients. So we do get a chance to listen to calls and see what they do. The other place that I just get super passionate about research is me as a customer. There are so many bad salespeople, just like, I mean, I am trying to secure a venue for our certified partner summit in Newport, Rhode island, at the end of October. I call up places, I walk in. What I say is thinking about having an event at your location. 1015 people, some rooms, a place to work, some food and drink a couple of days. I think what I'm saying is, hi, I have ten or $15,000 that I'd like to spend with you. Could you help me do that?

11:15
Marc Lamson
I think that's what I'm saying. But what I think they think I'm saying is, now I'm going to do work, and here's some stuff, and here's some brochures, and you're in my way. And he's just, they just, they have this product and they're terrible. And it's three things. It's three things. This is the three things that I think affect how people are pitching today. Number one is they don't really understand the customer. I mean, you know, I said something. I said, I'm just taking my research. I'm saying what I want, and they don't ask questions they don't really understand. So they just start saying things that are important to them and not important to me, too. Is they're selling to themselves.

12:01
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

12:02
Marc Lamson
They're selling what they think is cool. They're selling what they think is awesome.

12:05
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. What they. What they think, Val, where the value is, you don't want to spend money on that, or you don't need that. You need this.

12:11
Marc Lamson
Yeah, yeah. They're just. They're just. They're. They're talking about what's important to them. And last, they don't seem very convinced themselves. They don't seem very excited, candid. They're boring. It's just, like, boring. It's just like. It's just not exciting to me. So as I think about what I see here, observe. Those are big buckets, but I think I look at those things. What do you. What do you. I mean, what do you. You see those different things?

12:40
Tom Stanfill
Well, I think you're. I think you're talking about. Or when, as you said that, it makes me think about how we teach people to build value in their recommendation and to start with, this idea of connecting. And this is where I see the big. Because I just delivered a workshop weeks ago. I see this is where people struggle, and it relates to one and two, and it may even relate to three, because. Because they don't understand the concept. The customer, they're not convinced.

13:09
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

13:09
Tom Stanfill
They love passion and confidence because they don't really get the cut. That's where I get confident in my solution, is when I start seeing what the problems are, and I'm like, oh, I can fix that. I can help with that. But if I don't really understand it, and I'm just. I'm listening to somebody else tell me what other people might need, I'm not convinced because I haven't gone through the process. But the first thing we think, you know, that we teach, as you know, and we see is critical, is you. Is to connect the benefits to the decision maker or whoever you're talking to. And I always like to say that if you can't begin the sentence with, because you. What you next, what you say next doesn't matter.

13:45
Tom Stanfill
And I think that's where, like, if you can begin to sense, because you are putting on this event or because you're having these 15 partners come up are, because whatever they learned about you, now, if they didn't learn anything about you, then they shouldn't be presenting anyway. Right. They didn't go through the right process. But if they've gone through the process and said, tell me what you're doing. Why is this important? What do you care about what are your decision drivers? What's the why? You know, what else have you done before in the past? All the things, the questions that they should ask, because I've done this before, as you know, and I made big mistakes because I didn't know what I was doing. You know, what happens if the air conditioning goes out? What if something doesn't work? What if. Yeah.

14:22
Tom Stanfill
Do you have backup? Are there people that are going to help me? Like all those things I had no clue about? Well, if they ask all those questions, they should begin with. They should begin the sentence with because you. And whether they do that or not, if they're talking about you, whatever they, and they describe you. Well, whatever they say next, you're interested in.

14:39
Marc Lamson
Relevant.

14:40
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, it's relevant. And most times, I bet if you said, can you begin the sentence with because you, or can you start talking by describing what I care about? They probably couldn't.

14:49
Marc Lamson
Yeah, 100% agree, because you sent you. I think about a couple of things. One is I watch people when they present and coach them and say, when you say the word if, stop.

15:04
Tom Stanfill
Oh, that's a great point.

15:06
Marc Lamson
And they're like, well, if you want this or if you're doing that, or if you're going to do this or, you know, again, people are just saying if. No, that's not the case. Yesterday I was, I was at a hotel and say, well, you know, if you're going to plan, like staying here for night, for dinner, like she goes off of this big speech about their restaurant, how they bring in food and how they do this and how they have s'mores at the fireplace. I'm, like, in my head, there's two things happening. One is you're wasting my time because I already have a plan for Wednesday night that we're going to go somewhere else and do something else and I have no interest, so you're wasting my time. And two, people want the tailored solution for them. And so I want to pay for.

15:54
Marc Lamson
It's the Liberty commercials. I've seen the Liberty mutual commercials. Only pay for what you need. So I want this venue and I want the things that are for me that I'm going to use and I'm going to pay for that and I don't. And if I have things I'm not going to use, I feel like I'm wasting money. I don't want this terrace with this fire pit and all these cool chairs, and it's going to affect my room price and I'm not going to use it. So I don't want that. And so you don't need to take three minutes and tell me how much you much love having s'mores at the pit. Because it's not me.

16:27
Tom Stanfill
It's not what you.

16:27
Marc Lamson
The question is, why do they do that? I don't know why they do that.

16:32
Tom Stanfill
I think it's because it's easy. It's like. It's a script.

16:35
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

16:35
Tom Stanfill
When I meet with somebody, here are the things that I need to say about. And you're in your comfort zone. Like, if I'm in my comfort zone, meaning I say these five things. Every time I talk about the restaurant, I talk about a rooms, I talk about whatever it is. I. I have the things that I say, and it's up to you. I. And basically we call those the lowest level reps. They're billboards. They're billboards. Like, here's the billboard here. If you want to think about our hotel, I'm going to show you five billboards. And by the way, if you're interested in any of them, you can just stop me and I'll talk more about those, which. This is not going to cut it anymore. Maybe if you're.

17:13
Tom Stanfill
Maybe an event, you know, coordinator, where your job is to answer the customer's questions and they don't want to pay you anything because they don't want you to influence.

17:22
Marc Lamson
But it's the if. It's the if. And it's. And it's making decisions for the customer. Like, the cost of things is another big area. Yeah. Like people will say, well, that's expensive, right? Not more expensive. More expensive is more expensive. That's expensive. What does expensive mean? I don't know. If you were. I think you were part of this. There were some clients where we've tried. That was a focus for them, and we did an exercise where we said, okay, it's an incredibly important event. It's anniversary, it's a monumental birthday. It's something really awesome. And you're with your immediate family and friends, and you're going to order an expensive bottle of wine. How much would you spend on that wine? And write it down on a piece of paper. Don't talk to anybody. Write it down. A piece of paper.

18:12
Marc Lamson
And we collect 20 pieces of paper. And every single time, the numbers on the piece of paper, we set up the same scenario. We get it really important. People are excited. What's an expensive bottle of wine that you would be willing to buy? And the answers, 100% of the time are between zero and somewhere around two. $300 for a bottle of wine. People are like, it's zero because no one in my family drinks alcohol, so I would never buy, like, it's just right. So when we talk about expensive bottles of wine, that's 20. That's 50. That's a hundred. I was at the doctor yesterday with my son. He's got some. He's got some issues with lower leg healing, issues, running, jumping. We're trying to chase this thing. And the doctor said, we said, what else can we do?

19:00
Marc Lamson
She says, well, you could get a gate analysis. But she says, but that would be expensive. I mean, like, in other words. So she said, she's a doctor.

19:09
Tom Stanfill
It's up to you to be smarter.

19:11
Marc Lamson
Than anybody in the building. And she was awesome. She's like, but I wouldn't recommend that because that's going to be expensive. So I said, what's expensive? And she said, $500. Again, it's all relevant to everybody but for us. And helping my son run and jump in track the next two years of his high school career, I'll spend $500 all day long to do a gate analysis. This is all about not connecting to the customer. And it's because, Tom, they can't say because you. Because they don't know. Because they didn't ask.

19:51
Tom Stanfill
And you know what? You know, this is reminding me of, I think, even more of a fundamental gap is they don't want to lead when I say they.

19:59
Marc Lamson
That's fair.

20:00
Tom Stanfill
Like, even the doctor. Right? The doctor, we. It's so much easier for them to be in a reactive mode or be, you know, in sales to be in a reactive mode. You tell me where you want to go, and I'll take you there.

20:13
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

20:14
Tom Stanfill
Versus own the problem. If we're going to be a trusted partner, we need to. We need to be experts on the treatment your son needs or the hotel. You should. You should, you know, rent out. If you're going to have an event, choose, like, because they put on. How many events have they put on? I think you've done this once or twice.

20:33
Marc Lamson
Yeah, that's right. That's right.

20:36
Tom Stanfill
And so if I'm. If I'm here telling the hotel and saying, I've got conference center and I can help you, I've done this thousands of times. So here's what you know. So I know how this. And it's okay to say, if you're at the beginning of the conversation, you're kind of throwing out some options because you're, you know, you're explaining things and you'll say, we'll get back to that later. But if they take a trip and they figure out what you need, then they say, look, for you to accomplish this. Here's what you need to do in order to do that. And they should lead you to that and say, I will help you put on the best conference.

21:04
Tom Stanfill
If you say, I want to spend the least amount on a hotel and I don't really care about the event, and they have an expensive hotel and they're really built for putting on, you know, a plus event, then they should fire you and say, we're not the hotel for you. Yeah, we're both wasting our time. But it's almost like this is what we do. Let me know. Yeah, yeah.

21:25
Marc Lamson
It's, it's really about. And this is kind of goes back to, am I convinced? Like, have you asked me enough questions to understand what I'm trying to do? And then say, this is what has to happen? I mean, we do this a lot. We talk about when we talk with clients, we talk about there's some work. We talk about the phases of how we work. We talk about the work up front to tailor and customize the program. We do some workshops to get start the process. Then we work with leaders and do other things. And someone says, well, we don't have the budget to work for leaders. We don't have that budget. I come at it from a perspective of what we're talking. I've been doing this for 20 years. So here's what's non negotiable.

22:08
Marc Lamson
What's non negotiable is the path to develop people and how they develop habits and how you transform organization, that's non negotiable. What is negotiable is who does it.

22:17
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

22:17
Marc Lamson
If you are able to change your managers to become coaches and diagnose, align and develop and follow this into this approach, perfect. Go do that. And if you can't, we happen to have people who can. So, again, to me, this whole idea of influencing people or building value in your solution is not about you have to do it my way, but it is about leading. Say, this is the way that this happens because I do this five times a week and do this once every ten years.

22:47
Tom Stanfill
Exactly. And it's okay that comes up and you don't know exactly what to recommend, but what you people that are compelling and that have the ability to influence at the highest level will say things like, for you to drive transformation, these three things need to happen. You need to be able to do this, this, and they can lay it out. They have strong convictions. They speak, whether they're introverts, extroverts, passionate, loud or soft. They speak in definitive statements, and they say, this is just true. And you can tell they believe it. Like people believe what you believe now. And then they can say, so let's talk about your organization. Do your managers have the bandwidth, too, or how, what is your element? You can start unpacking that.

23:31
Tom Stanfill
But regardless, somewhere in the process, they need to know, I or the customer needs to feel when they're meeting with a rep, a trusted partner, they know more about solving the problem of the customer. And if you start to get the sense of the doctor, I would know more about solving. You got to find another doctor.

23:51
Marc Lamson
Well, I go on the WebMd or the Internet. There's lots of stuff.

23:54
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, well, it's a little bit of a problem because the customers seem pretty smart, you know? And I think that some reps are intimidated by the fact that there's so much data, right. Available to a customer, which makes the customer, you know, like, want to lead. But if the customer's leading, then you're not going to have a job.

24:11
Marc Lamson
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I mean, just to shift gears for a minute, when you talk about there's a lot of data, there's a lot of options. And I think sometimes when we're connecting, like, we forget, you know, I'm just going to go back to my hotel. Poor woman at the hotel. I think we're going to stay there, actually. She's like, well, you know, we have these waterfront rooms. Okay, I'm in Newport, Rhode island. I'm standing in the back of a hotel with waterfront rooms. Guess what? So do the next five hotels that are right next to you that I just walked out of. I'm walking down the strip. They all have waterfront rooms because it's Newport, and so they're on the ocean.

24:50
Tom Stanfill
That's where the hotels are.

24:52
Marc Lamson
So she thinks that's really cool. And it's a really pretty view. And it's a really pretty view 200 yards over there as well. So people forget to tell me what's different. Like, like, what's different about your waterfront rooms? And if it's nothing, then that's okay. But don't, don't.

25:10
Tom Stanfill
Don't tell me what I already know so important. I think that's a big gap, Mark, is that there, we act like they're not options, but the customer has multiple options. I'll never forget this. I talk about this. I've probably talked about this for ten years, maybe even longer. Is it a trade show? And because trade shows are interesting, when you talk about the options, you're walking into a trade.

25:31
Marc Lamson
See them event space and all their.

25:34
Tom Stanfill
You know, there's 100, 5200, maybe more, you know, booths that all have billboard and they're all next to each other. And, you know, there's 20 companies that say they do the same thing or you're kind of. They look like they do the same thing. And I walked up this booth and I said, what do y'all do? And she said, there are three types of companies here in our space. And, you know, they do this or this. There's three categories, and we're in category three. And what's unique about us in category three is we do this. I'm like, you're beautiful. I mean, it was like she explained to me my options, and she explained to me what she did in light of all my. She could in the way that I always say it is, can you represent the competition?

26:13
Tom Stanfill
Can you represent all options, solutions? And because if you. If you want to be my trusted partner and you want to contrast your solution versus doing nothing versus the competition, you need to be able to understand what the options are. And why is it my best interest to choose yours versus back to owning it, back to looking at the customer going, well, if you're interested in this, I have this. Otherwise, you know, kind of let me know. You know, let me know. Think about it. Let me know if you have any more questions. Consider this.

26:47
Marc Lamson
This is part of how we can really help. I mean, I think about, you know, if we. If we embrace our role as a seller is to serve, then the best way to serve is help them. Help them buy mayonnaise, help them navigate all the options that are out there and boil it down. Only. Only they can make the decision. And the more we learn, the better we can help guide them, but it's ultimately their decision. And so that's just my role is to help inform them. And so that contrast, the word you use between options, is super easy. It's why when you go to best buy or anybody, you can compare. You can compare. You can say, I want this tv and this tv, and you can hit compare. You can lay them out next to each other. And now there's a button.

27:31
Marc Lamson
It says highlight differences.

27:34
Tom Stanfill
Oh, wow.

27:35
Marc Lamson
Super helpful. Because, well, this is a 60 inch tv. And what's the size of the 60 inch tv. 60 inches. 60 inches. 60 inches. Well, that's helpful. But when you hit highlight differences, it just boils it down. You're like, oh, okay, that's. Now, we're not all selling 60 inch tvs at Best Buy, but where you can simplify the differences, helps people make decisions, and sometimes your option is a better option, and sometimes it's not. But you're building your relationship and you're elevating your role as a trusted partner by having the expertise and desire to do that. Contrast the differences. And the last thing I'll say for a lot of people, I know, for us, for a lot of people, the competition is nothing, is status quo.

28:23
Tom Stanfill
We forget, do nothing.

28:25
Marc Lamson
It's do nothing. That's, that's the biggest competition because either.

28:31
Tom Stanfill
Do it internally or do something.

28:33
Marc Lamson
Doing nothing takes no effort.

28:34
Tom Stanfill
It's super easy, right? Yeah. I think the reason that people struggle with that is either because they just not willing to do the work. You know, maybe I, you know, maybe it's just hard, but I, I think they really don't know. Like, what did you call it when you hit the button and you're looking at tvs and it tells you the difference?

28:58
Marc Lamson
Highlight differences.

28:59
Tom Stanfill
Highlighting differences.

29:00
Marc Lamson
Compare. I can highlight the differences.

29:02
Tom Stanfill
I think the biggest challenge, I think most people want to work. I think people will do the work. And because it's hard to be in sales. So people, usually in sales are disciplined, but when they highlight the differences, it's based on a product, and they have highly the differences, they go, well, there's not any difference.

29:18
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

29:18
Tom Stanfill
In their mind, they're, like, worried. And I think we forget I, that when you want to differentiate or contrast your solution, you have more options than the features and benefits of the hotel or the tv. You have the what. You got the what, which is the features and benefits of the product and what you offer. But there's also the how and the who. You know, like, if you're looking at the how do they like, if you're putting on an event here's how we're going to support you. Right? Like, you could say all these hotels have ocean views. They're all going to beautiful. But what's different about us is how we're going to support you.

29:53
Tom Stanfill
You're putting on an event and you want it to go well, and you're, you know, these are the most important people and you want them to have a great experience. Well, there's a lot of things that could go wrong. And let's talk about how we're going to make sure that doesn't happen.

30:02
Marc Lamson
Well, yeah.

30:03
Tom Stanfill
Or I'm your event, personal event coordinator. And none of that. No other hotel on the, you know, in Rhode island or not Rhode island, let's say Newport is going to have a personalized event coordinator for you to work with. It's going to be specifically assigned to your, you know, it could be a who, or I'm going to work with you. And I have a lot of experience, whatever it is. But I think we miss that when we go to contrast as we focus on the what. Well, by the way, if you have the most innovative content, I mean, the innovative product, focus on the what. I mean, we're the only hotel on the ocean, and you want a view. It's easy.

30:39
Marc Lamson
Yeah, no, it's. But that goes back to the importance. I mean, obviously, all of this depends on understanding the customer. It understands on discovery, it depends on taking the trip. And so when I know those, you know, my situation, my decision drivers, I mean, you know, what's going on. And so my situation, we have a lot of people from out of town, never been to Rhode island. And so one of the places I went to, she said, like, are your people, like, where are they from? I said, well, they're from all over the place. They're from New Mexico, Chicago.

31:09
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

31:09
Marc Lamson
So later on, as I was leaving, she said, she says, she said, she says, by the way, she says, I grew up here. So she said, if people want to know, like, where to go get a beer or dance or a coffee, she says, I know. I'm like, that's a contrast. Like, I, that's a difference of the whole hotel. It's not going to appear on any sales training, brochure, presentation, whatever. She's like, I grew up here. I'm like, got it.

31:39
Tom Stanfill
And the way that they communicate throughout the process can be the differentiator. That's the who. And you can always differentiate the who and the how. The what. Maybe, maybe not. But you can always differentiate the who and the how.

31:55
Marc Lamson
The only other thing I think about that when I see people is when you think about reviews. Like reviews online are becoming very powerful, right? People are reading reviews, what people write, and here's why they are, because it's not just the differences. It's the pros and the cons. And as a salesperson, our credibility.

32:22
Tom Stanfill
Our.

32:22
Marc Lamson
Relationship as a trusted partner goes way up when we can communicate cons. Now, I know that's ridiculously counterintuitive. When you're trying to sell something, again, you're trying to balance understanding where they are and your organization. But there are some organization we talked to. One of my cons sometimes I'll bring up in this process is when we don't have the exact, hey, have you worked with this type of firm? No, we haven't worked with, like, a company in your industry. Exactly. And so I'll just say what, you know, I'll say that. I'll highlight that these are all the things that are benefits. We haven't worked with anyone in your industry. I'm not going to sit there and say that stinks. I'll say that we have worked with similar sales roles, and here's where our experience is.

33:09
Marc Lamson
I don't just leave it out there, but I think acknowledging the short, I mean, if you're perfect, if you're the perfect solution, you're full of. I read the reviews of everything's perfect. Everything's five. I know that's just some kind of, like, bot that's pumped those things in there. I need to have a little reality.

33:29
Tom Stanfill
Well, it's just the typical political crap that we're all is everybody's playing a game and it's just all marketing nonsense. And so we don't believe anything. I always think about the waiter. If the waiter says, everything's great, I believe nothing they said, correct.

33:46
Marc Lamson
Yeah, that's right.

33:47
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, yeah.

33:48
Marc Lamson
If they say, house, the whatever, he's like, I'm like, perfect. Now you have my. Now if you say, get the lobster, I'm gonna buy it.

33:56
Tom Stanfill
Because, yeah, if they say, hey, look, I don't, you know, I mean, there's a ways to handle that. I'm a vegetarian, and so I don't like this or that, but, you know, but yeah, if everything's great, it's like, just be. You have a gap. Tell them what it is. If it's relevant. Yeah. I look for ways to demonstrate that I'm honest and I'm a trusted partner because, you know, I wanted, my goal is to help the customer succeed, help the customer solve their problems. And so let's talk a little bit about emotions and how emotional.

34:28
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

34:29
Tom Stanfill
A lot of we've been talking about is information. You know, we've talked about how to connect the benefit to the customer by starting with because you. And explaining their world, which, by the way, to me is the hardest part of selling, is preparing those connections. Right. Everything else, to me, I've done a million times, and I can adjust, but that nuance of being able to say, okay, so what's going on with you and why this is important to you and be able to articulate that is always my biggest challenge. But both, you know, connecting and contrasting is about information, but then we get into getting them to, like, get them to emotionally experience it. I think that's the biggest challenge, especially virtually. Do you agree?

35:15
Marc Lamson
Well, if. I think it's. I think the. What I want to say the. The level of emotion required is correlated is engineering term.

35:28
Tom Stanfill
Oh, absolutely. I use that term all the time.

35:30
Marc Lamson
Correlated. It's like, it's aligned with the level of change you're asking someone to make. If it's like a small thing, it's like, a little bit upgrade. It's like, no big deal. Like, hey, you're doing this. You should do this. It's a little different. It's fine. But if it's like, we want someone to really change what they're doing, like.

35:45
Tom Stanfill
No longer eat sugar, no longer drink alcohol.

35:48
Marc Lamson
Yeah, yeah, let's be reasonable. Let's be reasonable here.

35:54
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Like, yeah, but make a major decision is correlated with the amount of emotions required.

35:59
Marc Lamson
Yeah, that's right. And I think there's an emotion that. That causes to say, I'm going to do what's required to make this change in my behavior or my bind or whatever, or just have to go through all the things that's required to do that. Yeah, it's in a. I mean, but. And it happens simply. I mean, you know, we do it all the time. I do this all the time with, like, friends. I find myself. I hear people will be hanging out somewhere, let's go on the boat or let's go get a quick drink. Like, well, I kind of got to go home and, you know, and, like, that'd be fun. The bars. There's a new band. Okay. And then what do they say? What do people say? They say, oh, you twisted my arm. Right? You twisted my arm.

36:41
Marc Lamson
There's a saying there and that it's back to the 19 hundreds. And people, like, literally would twist your arm and, like, literally put pressure on you. I don't. Maybe I'll explain to my age. And my parents are gone, so they can't get in trouble, but my mom used to take my ear and do that to my ear.

36:57
Tom Stanfill
Oh, really?

36:58
Marc Lamson
My attention. And, like, that really hurts when she did it. So we don't want to. We don't want to twist people's arm. We don't want to pressure them into something, but we want to compel them to do something that we're convinced is in their best interest. Right.

37:14
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

37:15
Marc Lamson
And that's the place of motion plays, I think.

37:18
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. To kind of defeat that back. And obviously, I agree with you. If the change is easy and information is just needed, hey, you ought to do this versus that. And like, okay, great. Hey, I was looking for this. We ought to consider this when you're buying a 60 inch tv. Okay, no big deal. But if it's like, I think you should never watch tv again.

37:35
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

37:36
Tom Stanfill
That's a major. Or you're gonna spend a $1,000 on a tv and they're trying to get you to spend $5,000 on it.

37:43
Marc Lamson
Right. It's really, like, major.

37:46
Tom Stanfill
Like, I never save money, and you need to start saving money. It's a major. We were going to invest in something that costs, you know, $10,000 and you think they need to invest $100,000. Whatever it is, it's a major.

37:59
Marc Lamson
Perfect example.

38:00
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. If they don't have an emotion, they don't emotionally. So what we say, if they don't emotionally experience the benefit, they're not going to change. You know, when you share information, people think, but when they feel something, that's what causes them to act. And I think you've been working on. I know as we've constantly developed our content, you've been. You're a good person to talk to because you have an engineering background. On what? How to convince people emotionally? Because you're more of a data guy. You're like, hey, if you're not sharing your data in a compelling way, it's not going to resonate with me and you're probably going to lose credibility. I know you've been teaching this related to success stories. I'd love for you to unpack that.

38:47
Marc Lamson
Yeah. Well, I think. I think, first of all, when you're making this, when we're talking to clients with no audience, we have to know, what type of person are they? Are they an engineer who wants to. If you give me data. If you give me data, I'm not interested in the data until I know that the data is valid. I mean, you and I do this, let's be honest. Like you're. I'm an engineer. You're not an engineer.

39:14
Tom Stanfill
Hey, I did go to an engineering school, so I know. I know engineers.

39:19
Marc Lamson
Okay, well. And I'm not an engineer either.

39:22
Tom Stanfill
I am practicing one.

39:24
Marc Lamson
No, no, I'm not an engineer either.

39:26
Tom Stanfill
Not a practicing engineer.

39:27
Marc Lamson
But, you know, I want to know, like, how did you get that data? I want to validate that. And so that's, that's a logical discussion, but emotionally, it allows me to. It allows me to, it compels me. I think that's what we're talking about. It's compelling. It's a compelling. It's a compelling reason to make a change. That's, to me, what this is all about. And success stories. Success stories are one of the easiest ways for sellers to convince or compel people to make a change, which is, you know, it's like, you know, it's behavior, it's, you know, what is it? Past something. I'm sure there's some saying about, you know, something. The past predicts the future. But, hey, I don't want to go first. Who else has done this, right? Who else has done this? So we have. So. But can I.

40:19
Marc Lamson
If I could say some of the success stories that I'm passionate about. Lots of organizations provide success stories to sellers. These logos, these clients with this stuff. But storytelling, I mean, you could spend days on storytelling. A lot of, in our workshops, we do kind a little storytelling class. And, like, people are. They're terrible telling stories. I mean, you ever watch documentaries on tv and, like, the really good ones, like, really compelling. Heavy engine, the seat. And, like, the ones, no offense, like sitting on PBS at, like, you know, 10:00 and later, like, you're. You pass out because you're asleep. Like there's. There's good storytellers and there's bad storytellers, and we can't. I mean, that's a whole science. But I think there's three things that make a success story compelling, and one is that you start with a character.

41:10
Marc Lamson
Like, that's what stories are about.

41:13
Tom Stanfill
You think of a book, get connected to a character.

41:16
Marc Lamson
The person. Like, who is this person? And this person, by the way, is. Is like the person I'm talking to. Right. I don't say, well, we want to make that.

41:25
Tom Stanfill
We want to make the customer the hero of the story.

41:27
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

41:28
Tom Stanfill
We got to pick a similar hero and they put themselves into the story.

41:33
Marc Lamson
Yeah. So it's like, okay, now I'm kind of interested in what's going to happen to this person, right. And so I have a character describe them. And then the second thing is we basically describe a similar challenge. Right? A similar challenge. People are just narrating a bunch of details. You're trying to get to that. This organization, this person, whatever you're selling. B, two c, b two b. It's. It's this is the situation they had. Now, this is very important. This is very important. People don't disagree with their own data. So. So what makes the story more compelling is to not say, this customer is just like you. Yeah, because. Because the cut. Because now that the prospect is like, well, says who? Yeah, don't say. It's just like you don't say this is a relevant customer. Don't say anything. Just describe the damn challenge.

42:32
Marc Lamson
And the person says to himself, oh, my God. That's exactly my situation. Okay, now we've got them interested in the conflict and the challenge, and, like, okay, so now we have somebody with this challenge. Now what? Okay, bring it home. I say. I call it reveal the resolve. Well, this is what happened, right? They worked with us. They did this, they changed that. And by the way, let's back up. This is not just buy our stuff. This is like when I'm trying to compel someone, my kids, to do something differently. This is what, you know, someone did this, and this is what happened.

43:10
Marc Lamson
We're a guy at our principal, at our middle, principal at our high school, we had junior night the other night and talking about getting kids ready for college, and he says, like, the interest you show in colleges is really important. He talked about things anytime. Told a story. He told a story. And he said, I worked with a junior at my previous school three years ago, blah, blah. So all the parents were like, yep, this is my kid. I'm listening. He's like. And he went. It was applying to a bunch of schools, but he wasn't going to some of the. Some of the information sessions or wasn't doing this, but this was showing interest. He was trying to convince us that you have to show interest in college. It's a difference maker he get.

43:46
Marc Lamson
And he says, at the end, he basically said it's a kind of a. It's not a success story. It's a sad story. He says at the end of, he didn't get into his, like, safety school. He didn't get any schools. And they actually called the school, and they said, like, basically you were in a good pool of candidates, but you had zero interest in our school. There was not one thing that you attended. There was nowhere to put your name, and we just assumed you didn't want to go to school, so you didn't get in. And, like, I wrote down, show interest. Like that compelled action to says, this is important. So we got connected to this story. We want to see how it ends. Now. Success stories are a good ending, right?

44:23
Tom Stanfill
That's interesting. Yeah, I like the. Yeah.

44:25
Marc Lamson
Character. Similar challenge reveal the resolve and. Yeah, and I think the key to.

44:36
Tom Stanfill
The second, I think I'm hearing you say and the character, they need to. They need to identify with the character because we need to make them the hero of the story. But you're saying, which is, I think, a little bit disruptive, is like, don't tell them of the hero. The story. Just. Yeah, let me share this story with you. And so that you kind of. Because you're telling. And we remember the reason we're emotionally connected to movies is because of the story. Like, if you think about why stories are related to emotions, because we watch a movie, we feel. We're scared, we're excited. We're there.

45:06
Marc Lamson
We're in.

45:07
Tom Stanfill
We're there. So we got to create that same. The challenge is we got to do it quickly, so we got to pick a character that we can describe that hopefully they will then be. Become attached to the story. But I think when you share the challenge is that I think the key to getting them drawn in is creating curiosity where they don't know what's going to happen.

45:30
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

45:30
Tom Stanfill
Our brain tries. So it's like a lot of people thought this, they should do this, and a lot of people like, you know, and you. You kind of create and they're like, yeah, well, that's what I was thinking. Well, that didn't work well, you know, for sure. Yeah.

45:43
Marc Lamson
And because I'm an engineer, I'm like a B English student at best. And so I don't understand all the story issues, but it's, you know, that's like, what plot is like. Plot is like tension. Yes. Oh, my God. What's going to happen? Right. What's going to happen?

45:58
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, it's exactly right. I think that's. I think stories. I think you're exactly right. That is.

46:02
Marc Lamson
I watch people tell stories to get.

46:04
Tom Stanfill
People to be excited. Yeah.

46:06
Marc Lamson
Excited.

46:07
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. Be. I want to share one more way as we kind of close out.

46:12
Marc Lamson
Can I just share one more. Can I share one more about stories? I think it's important, but very simple.

46:16
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

46:16
Marc Lamson
Have details. Yeah, have details. In other words, that was.

46:20
Tom Stanfill
That was kind of why I would thought that you were very helpful in talking about how to share. That is the way you talked about details that led well.

46:27
Marc Lamson
Yeah, but I mean, when you're telling the story, I mean, like, have a person's name. Like, if you can't reveal the name of the customer, say a city, seven, date.

46:34
Tom Stanfill
Oh, that's a really good point.

46:35
Marc Lamson
When I ask my son, who comes home late after curfew and say, what were you doing? Nothing. You know, just hanging out with some friends. That's bull. That's a bunch of crap.

46:45
Tom Stanfill
Right? Yeah.

46:46
Marc Lamson
Right. Who. So it's the same as interviewing. You interview people. I got a guy one time says I did a big project and was like, all my senior year and this and that. I said, well, how many people on your team? He's like, he didn't know. He didn't know anything. It's bull. So when you tell stories, when you give relevant, not relevant details of this customer, this state, this city, this time, this month, this number, the more details it's letting them know this is a true story versus you can make up stuff without details.

47:14
Tom Stanfill
I love that.

47:14
Marc Lamson
Believable by having details.

47:17
Tom Stanfill
I love that. I love that. And I think you said something about the story thing that it connected to me about. Yeah, I will just. But, yeah, I love it. It's like getting them involved in the story and making it real to them, I think is critical is that they. Oh, I know what I was going to say. You were talking about the details of why that. That's emotional. Like, if. If you're going to say, like, you were telling the story about Newport. Like, we're on the ocean.

47:46
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

47:47
Tom Stanfill
You know, if you've been to Newport, the waves are crashing on the rocks. We're right on the ocean. There's a big guardhouse that's been there since the hurricane. Like, I'm picturing.

47:53
Marc Lamson
Yeah, right. Yeah.

47:54
Tom Stanfill
Those details, which gets my emotions. It activates a whole nother side of the brain. It's a restaurant hotel that did it. Like, you know, I'm picturing what you say, which elicits emotion, which, again, is what we're talking about, is we're getting people connected. I want to share one other. This is a little bit more difficult to do, but I think has probably even more impact than success story. And it's kind of a success story on steroids. It's what we talk about at ASLAN is to get people to emotionally get connected to it is to share a word picture, which is where you're leveraging analogy, an illustration, to connect something that they do understand to something they don't understand. And this guy shared this with the other day, one of our new clients.

48:38
Tom Stanfill
We were talking about how they were, one of the key leaders was talking, meeting with the board about how their plan to transform their sales organization. I just love this example because it has such impact. And so he walks in, he doesn't say anything, and he knows that. His point is that they're going to want to stop halfway. They're not going to want to fully invest in what's required to transform. They're going to want to do the quick thing and move on, which is a constant battle that we have in organizations. It's like, it's hard to say we're going to do all the work required to really transform the organization and see results because it's not easy. The event of training is easy. Yeah, but the transform is tough. Sustaining it, though. He, he stopped. He's in front of the board.

49:25
Tom Stanfill
I mean, this is the fortune, I think it's a Fortune 500 company. And he's standing in front of the board and he's, he has this transformer, you know. Right. That goes from a car to a robot, and he's got this, he just knows that he's standing there, this bar, and he starts playing with it. Does anything. He starts playing with it and he stops. He goes, now he goes, what's it? What was it? He goes, there goes, it's a car. He goes, what is it now? And they go, it's nothing. And he says, exactly. He said, because this thing is a car that transforms in a robot, and if you stop halfway, it's nothing. You got to complete the process or become a robot.

50:05
Marc Lamson
That's awesome.

50:05
Tom Stanfill
And I dropped the mic, walk off the stage. I'm like, I mean, how could you not pay attention to that? It's. Predictability determines impact. He's like, he. So that's a word picture. It's like they get it. It's like he could have said 1000 words and it wouldn't have had as much impact as that. Just a little demonstration. And I think that's the power of coming up with analogy, illustration, demonstration, something that gets people to feel what. It's an experience. The benefit of your recommendation.

50:39
Marc Lamson
That's what it is. It's about, we talked about illustrations. You show it live. It's, it's a feeling. You experience a feeling and it's hard to put the finger on. Have, have you ever rode. It reminds me of just some, I mean, this is a favorite example of mine. You ever rode? Ever ridden something called the seatbelt condenser ever?

51:03
Tom Stanfill
No.

51:04
Marc Lamson
It's out there. It's, it was really popular in the eighties, right? Like, you know, like people didn't.

51:09
Tom Stanfill
Wear the back when I didn't wear it back when I didn't wear seatbelts.

51:11
Marc Lamson
Exactly. I know. Yeah. And so I.

51:14
Tom Stanfill
Well, I had a bias against seatbelts because my dad didn't wear them so. Well.

51:17
Marc Lamson
Yeah. My parents, Adam, and my 73 Oldsmobile. If you didn't put it on, if you didn't pull it out, it was a lap belt, first of all, not a shoulder, just a lap belt. If you didn't pull it out of the thing would buzz. So the solution was just pull it out and tie it in a knot and I would just keep it out. And so, like.

51:30
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, there's that.

51:31
Marc Lamson
Anyway. Yeah, no, they still do this. They. This is still around. The seatbelts usage is much more widely used in the US today than it was in like, in the eighties, but in like 1985. Went to my mom's, like, Dupont was having some like, family safety day, and they had the convincer. And the convincer is this basically a little trailer that police. That the police department's tow around. And it's a seat and it's on a little ramp and you sit in the seat and you put a seatbelt on and it goes down the hill. Five to 8 miles an hour that hits this thing. You want to ride the seatbelt condenser.

52:05
Tom Stanfill
Only five to 8 miles an hour.

52:06
Marc Lamson
Five to 8 miles an hour. Oh, my God. Like, it is, you. You experience. You feel what it feels like to hit something at five to 8 miles an hour. Then they say, do you want to go down the hill without the seat belt? 99.9% of people say absolutely, positively not. And the point is, in the eighties, I forget what the number was, but 79% of people that rode the condenser the next month in surveys and analysis were wearing seat belts in their car. That seemed like a dumb little thing. That's a big thing. This is a hard thing for people to relate to. Maybe this is an older audience.

52:50
Tom Stanfill
No, but that makes perfect. It makes perfect.

52:52
Marc Lamson
The point is. Yeah, yeah. Because statistically emotional, logically, you're 64% less likely to die. Die. Not improve workplace productivity. No. Die. You're 64% less likely to die if you wear a seatbelt. Yet people didn't wear seatbelts, but when they experienced what it was like to be in an accident, they started wearing seatbelts and that. And so how do you do that virtually? It's a word picture. It's analogy. It's describing. It's like this.

53:25
Tom Stanfill
It's experience it. Somehow you experience it. Yeah. Like, I remember using this word picture where I was trying to guy love baseball. And he was his issue. Washington. You guys don't. Back to your point. You don't really know our industry as well. You haven't done a lot of work industry. And so I use the analogy, word picture of how the Houston Astros won the World Series, and it was predicted that they would win the World Series in 2014, and they won it in 2017 because they brought somebody outside of baseball that changed the way they viewed baseball. And, you know, I'm not. I'm not really telling that story well right now because I don't want to. But it. The point is, it's like, oh, you're right.

54:09
Tom Stanfill
I was like, I was connecting something that he understood, which is why it's such an effective move or strategy, because it's. You're being other centered. You're saying you get how this works. Yeah. Let me. It's just like, yes.

54:24
Marc Lamson
Yeah, you. You believe this on this side, but you're not. Like, you're not emotionally. I just. And the example, I'll share the real example, because we can't pull in convincers and transformers to all of our virtual sales meetings is I had a sales rep one time, I was coaching a lot, and I knew he was into cooking. And his problem was, he didn't prepare for meetings. He get the meeting, and he'd just show up to the meeting and wing it. And so it clicked one day, I said, john. I said, it's the most important part of cooking. He's like, preparation. I'm like, well, tell me about it. He's like, oh, if you have everything ready, it's all the time. The cooking is the easy part. Perfect. Let's talk about sales meetings. And he's like, got it. Like, now I understand. Got it.

55:05
Marc Lamson
Like, we need. It's like, great. Let's go have a beer and call it even. But it's. That's. And again, you said this earlier. This is hard, but you have to know the client. You have to stop and be creative. And it's. It takes muscle memory and practice. But if you can do this, it's ridiculously convincing.

55:21
Tom Stanfill
It's effective.

55:22
Marc Lamson
Yeah.

55:23
Tom Stanfill
So let's wrap it up by just kind of pulling it all together. The three c's. One. The first thing we do is start, is we connect. We connect the benefits of what we're recommending to what's on their whiteboard. We begin with, because you. And we like, because you want to accomplish this, because this is important to you. Let me share what I. What I think will help you do this and we connect the benefits and a recommendation of what's important to them. They'll always 100% of time be interested in them. It's like they will always. They'll always work. And then we got a contrast, our solution versus all the other options. And then we need to convince them by using success stories, word pictures, by being convinced ourselves and using definitive language.

56:03
Tom Stanfill
I mean, everything we've talked about kind of hangs under those three c's. So I think this hopefully will help people in this market where they have to convince more people, it's harder to make a decision. More meetings are required. And also, I would just remind people that are listed as something that we talked about a lot internally. It's just because the decision making process has changed, meaning virtually doesn't mean you have to stick with that process. Right. You can say, look, in order for you to really understand the benefit of what we offer and see the impact, we're going to have to do the seat belt test, whatever that looks like. Right. And if they say, well, we're not willing to do the seatbelt test, you know, I'm using quotes here and.

56:46
Tom Stanfill
But, you know, the seat belt test is required, then, you know, maybe it's time to move on because, again, and the key is, if it's required, if it's not required, you know, then look for other things to do. Obviously, we want to make that as easy.

57:00
Marc Lamson
Good homework assigned. But you can, you can. This is safe to do at home listeners, right? This is not just how to sell people. This is about. It's about influencing people to do things that are in their best interest. Talking to your kids, talking to your spouse, you should know them. It's about them, not you. Because you let them know what's different about doing something and share a story. When I was a kid, when I was in high school, to my kids or whatever, just. It's the same practice. It's. It's effective at helping people do what's in their best interest. And that's the highest form of service.

57:39
Tom Stanfill
I love that you said that, mark, because when I did that. Well, okay, well, first of all, when I had to begin the sense with, because you like my son supposed to go, you know, he's supposed to mow the yard before he goes out and he doesn't want to do that. Like, how do I make that? Or homework, how do I connect? That's the hard work. The hard work is to start the sentence with hey, because. Because you need to mow the yard. Because you need to do like I had. If I can't do that then I'll do it because I told you to.

58:08
Tom Stanfill
Like it's it's ridiculous but when I've done that right and I've done the you know, shared the success stories or word pictures or whatever they it's my kids are you know they're mid to thirties to up you know, the early forties they still remember those conversations. Remember other, yeah, it's a compelling, it works all right my friend. Well I hope this has been helpful for our vast listening audience. It's it is tough out there but hopefully this helps make sales a little easier and our goal here at ASLAN is to continually help you to elevate your role and make sales easy and I hope this has accomplished that. So always looking for comments or questions so that we can better serve you. Thank you again for joining us for another episode of sales with ASLAN.