Welcome to SALES with ASLAN, a weekly podcast hosted by ASLAN Co-founders Tom Stanfill and Tab Norris, geared at helping sales professionals and sales leaders eliminate the hard sell. At the end of the day, we believe that selling is serving. ASLAN helps sellers make the shift from a ‘typical’ sales approach, to one that makes us more influential because we embrace the truth that the customer’s receptivity is more important than your value prop or message.

The goal of these interviews is to spotlight various experts in the world of sales and sales leadership – sharing informational stories, techniques, and expert interviews on the sales topics you care about.

The following are notes from EP. 200 The Other Centered Challenge PT. 1 Decide

Tired of the "me me me" world? At ASLAN, we believe true success comes from putting others first. That's why we're launching the #OtherCenteredChallenge – a 30-day journey to become other-centered!

How? Tom and Tab walk you through following the #OtherCenteredChallenge motto: Decide, Choose, Serve, Seek. This week we are focusing on deciding who the priority is before every interaction! Tune in for the next four weeks and watch every area of your life transform.

Listen below:

Or read below:

00:14
Tom Stanfill
Here. Welcome back to another episode of sales with ASLAN. I have my infamous co host in the. In the studio today. Deb, good to have you back. I think we had. I think we had one with maybe even two without you, which I.

00:18
Tab Norris
It hurts.

00:19
Tom Stanfill
I don't know if you do.

00:20
Tab Norris
I do. I do. I keep my eyes very attuned to when I'm not part. And it hurts just a little, but I know it's good.

00:28
Tom Stanfill
Well, were renegotiating your contract.

00:31
Tab Norris
Exactly.

00:34
Tom Stanfill
Have any more episodes with you until we finalize the numbers.

00:39
Tab Norris
And I feel really good about where we land.

00:40
Tom Stanfill
I feel like we land in a good place. I know.

00:42
Tab Norris
Our list crippled my pay rippled. Ripples.

00:46
Tom Stanfill
You got your. Let's just say, if anybody's worried about Tab. You got his number?

00:49
Tab Norris
I got my number. That's good. No, it's exciting. Good to be back. Excited about another episode today.

00:56
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna take quite a different journey today on our podcast and actually for the next series of podcasts that we've never done anything like this, but I had an epiphany, tab, and I shared this with you in an internal meeting. Not.

01:13
Tab Norris
So.

01:13
Tom Stanfill
I had an epiphany because you and I are both big fans of. Of these 30 day. You do even longer than that 75 day. I think you've done 90 day kind of these detox diets where you completely change what you eat or how you exercise for a specific period of time. And we both have become fans of those because we see, like, for me, whole 30. I'm a fan of whole 30.

01:39
Tab Norris
Yeah. When you introduced me to whole 30.

01:42
Tom Stanfill
Oh, I did?

01:43
Tab Norris
Yeah, that. Yes, you did. That was the first time I did one of these was you. We were at a breakfast place, and you said, I can't have that. I'm doing this whole 30. Like, ooh, that sounds really interesting. Next thing you know, I'm like, can I start now?

01:57
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You've become an expert at it. Yeah, I think one of my children turned me onto that. But the idea of the whole 30 is you only eat certain types of food, and it's about sort of breaking your relationship with food and really determining how does food affect you. And if you don't do it long enough, you won't see how the food you're eating affects you. Like, I learned I. How the negative impact of gluten on me.

02:21
Tab Norris
So you did notice that, Evan.

02:23
Tom Stanfill
Oh, my God. And my energy level. How my energy level was connected to what I was eating. I had no idea. But this 30 day fast, which was easy for me because, I mean, I'm just not a big fan of food. I don't really care too much about food. Alcohol was hard. No alcohol for me. They were problem. Not that I have a problem, I'm just saying. No, no. Socially, that was a little difficult. But, yeah, the food itself, because you can as much as you want, but you could only eat certain things. So. And you're doing what, the hard 70, 75 hard.

02:54
Tab Norris
And, yeah, it's the same idea, but it's 75 days. And you add a lot of other elements to it. So you have a specific diet that you pick, but it's not whole 30. You just pick some things that you feel like you need to take out of your diet. Like, okay, like, you know me, I'm addicted to french fries and chips. I mean, it's like I've got a real problem. Exactly. And so, and we know.

03:17
Tom Stanfill
Sweet.

03:17
Tab Norris
You know, like we wanted, my wife and I just, we did it together. We. No more. We just eat too many sweets and just. So we just didn't want to have that. So whatever. And then you kind of lock that in. You, you. And. But then you read certain number of pages a day. You have to do two. The part that's hard, you have to do 245 minutes workouts. One has to be outdoors every day for 75 days, which has been really great, but hard to schedule. Sometimes it'll be like 11:00 at night and I'm walking the dog, you know?

03:50
Tom Stanfill
And so what's the benefit of it?

03:52
Tab Norris
Well, the benefit is it's really more than anything, it's kind of like you just said, it's change it. You start really seeing change at 30 days. But if you can do something for 75 days, you really start building some habits. And they find that if you go that long, habits start getting created and you typically get a little bit more momentum and change this lasting. And a lot of it's just learning that you can do a lot more. Here's why I look at it. You can do a lot more than you think you can in a lot of areas of your life.

04:25
Tom Stanfill
So it not only stretches you from the standpoint of seeing how the, what you're removing affects you negatively, effectively, but you're also building some habits, positive habits that sort of building these discipline habits that might. That can be effective. Yeah, like, I know, exactly. It's almost like you do the hard things and then the easy things are easy.

04:45
Tab Norris
Yeah. Yeah. It really.

04:48
Tom Stanfill
Less hard things become more easy. Yeah, well, so that our passion for this and how it's affected both of us is what sparked this idea of having an OC 30. Okay, so that's being other centered for 30 days. Okay, so, and we need to explain to people who aren't familiar with other centered what that means. Other centered is a philosophy that we have really about everything that we believe you are more successful and you're more fulfilled when you serve others. So this is a philosophy that drives how we teach people to lead, how we teach people to sell. It's also a philosophy that we personally adopt and how we, how, what drives our marriage, our parenting, our relationships. I mean, we all have a strategy and we believe you're more successful when this is your strategy.

05:39
Tom Stanfill
I mean, it's like, right, let's just talk tactically about selling. We could talk about some of these other ones that might be not so intuitive and selling may not be intuitive. Like really, are we really going to be more successful in selling? Right. If we, if our goal is don't, don't we have to, you know, don't we have to be driven by our commission? Well, yes, we all want to win and we're never suggesting that people set aside their goal to be successful. No, our belief is you will be more successful if your goal is to serve the customer, help them solve, not be lazy, not have difficult conversations. It doesn't mean you're reactive. It just means that your goal, your whole focus is to help the customer solve their problems.

06:21
Tom Stanfill
And if you can't solve their problems, go find customers that you can solve problems. We just got a email on Friday from one of our top clients who their number one rep by, I think he outsells everybody by the next closest person by I think was 48% or something like that awful week. He was like 16% of quote for I think last week, no, two weeks ago. And so he sits, he wrote this email to everybody and he's basically saying, okay, I realized, wait, I want to wrote down what he said. Because I realized this week I made it a point because I realized I was not being other centered is basically what he said this week. I made it a point to focus on them. T h e m, capitalize, putting my wants and needs last.

07:09
Tom Stanfill
And I gave every call my absolute focus very closely following basically the training that we offered. I don't even know how to do the math.

07:20
Tab Norris
It's a big percentage.

07:21
Tom Stanfill
I mean it's like 6000 times more. When he sold the following week, and he gave all the credit and he said, yes, productivity is important. You got to do the work. You got to be disciplined. But we're serving our customers and focusing on them versus us. They don't care about us. Right. So. So we all have a strategy, and we believe being other centered is critical strategy to being successful. Tab, you. We were talking about where you came on. That's something that I know you struggle with and I believe in.

07:50
Tab Norris
Well, I mean, you know, we, you and I are guys that started a business out of our basement. So, you know, I've. We've been a hundred, you know, we. 100% commission is how we started, and it's in our blood. Right. It's just we're salespeople, and I went in sales. If I'm not doing well, I'm not getting to the number I need or I'm feeling any pressure financially and what I'm selling, that is where I can become self centered. I know it. I watch it start bubbling up and I press and I talk too much and I pitch too fast and I get impatient. So, I mean, I can see it. And it's just like a batter in baseball, when their average is low, what do they do? They.

08:38
Tom Stanfill
They.

08:38
Tab Norris
They start getting worse and worse because they keep trying too hard. They just keep pressing. So that's, for me, that is where I struggle with that.

08:45
Tom Stanfill
The same thing. I mean, because we talk about this in our programs, is the default, is always to self. I mean, that's why we're wired that way, because we got to survive. So we're fighting the gravitational pull to self when we, you know, when we get into these meetings, when there's so much at stake for us. Right. So, I mean, I fight it probably more in leadership. Right. You know, there's a philosophy. Everybody has a philosophy and strategy for, if you're a leader, you have a philosophy or strategy whether you've stated or not. So it's either self centered or other centered. Like the other center of philosophy and leadership is they're going to follow me. If I'm for them, my engagement is going to be higher, I'm going to better coach, I'm going to be a better leader.

09:24
Tom Stanfill
I'm going to help people set goals that are important to them. My management is all around metrics that they care about. So I'm either going to be successful by trying to get them to hit my number or I'm going to be successful by helping them hit their number. It's just there is a fundamental strategy that we all use, whether it's sales leadership. I remember early days in marriage, you and I had lots of conversations, and I kind of reflecting on this, my strategy for marriage tab. I realized this when I was together, was to complain and confront.

09:58
Tab Norris
That's a great strategy. Makes for a joyful household, I'm sure. I know.

10:02
Tom Stanfill
I didn't realize it was like, it was basically, I was very clear on the needs that I wanted to be met. I'm getting married. Right. So I. My assumption is this, you know, my wife's going to meet my needs, and so when that doesn't happen, I will complain and then I will challenge, and I'll basically point that out. I mean, obviously.

10:20
Tab Norris
Right.

10:20
Tom Stanfill
I don't. I probably wouldn't have agreed that was my strategy at the time, but it was a. Yeah, if you really.

10:25
Tab Norris
Unpack it, that's what was going on.

10:27
Tom Stanfill
What?

10:28
Tab Norris
That's what was going on. You just hadn't unpacked it.

10:31
Tom Stanfill
I hadn't faced it. And that's kind of the goal of this OC 30 is to. Is to figure out what is our strategy. Right. What is our overarching strategy? And we believe, again, we're going to talk about this, and we're going to unpack this. The four verbs that drive being other center, but we believe overarching. First, it starts with understanding. There's really two approaches to life. It's about being selfish. I'm going to figure out how I can get, or I'm going to ultimately win by helping other people. I'm designed and created. That's why you're more fulfilled, because I think it's how you were created. You were created to leverage the resources and talents that you have to help other people. And that's when we're most fulfilled. And why we're most fulfilled is because I think were created to do, and the data's in.

11:19
Tom Stanfill
It's like when you look at the people we celebrate. We celebrate two kinds of heroes. Two kinds of people. Celebrities and heroes. Right. You know, you think about it. I think we're all kind of attached to the celebrity idea because that looks pretty cool. People all love us.

11:36
Tab Norris
Yeah.

11:37
Tom Stanfill
Right? It's. We all adore them. Right? I mean, some people, listen, this probably could care less, but we all kind of. We look at these people that have accomplished these things, and everybody knows them. There's fame, they've got money, and we're like, okay, those are people. We definitely celebrate. Right? Sports figures, actors, actresses, all this. And then there's heroes that we celebrate, right? The people that have really had an impact on us because of what? Because they've done something for us or because they've done something for other people. And the other centered mentality is really about saying we care more about doing things for others because that's what lasts and that's what ultimately sustains us.

12:15
Tab Norris
Oh, it's. So, I read the paper today, Tom. Perfect example of what we're talking about. Well, you know me, I love baseball. Big Braves fan. And Azuna as our dh, the braves. And he's going to the all star game. And the article was, he's an all star in the clubhouse, too. And it was awesome. I mean, they had all these guys interviewed about him, and they said, let me just tell you, he is just all about every single person, and he, all he does is wander around and take care of everybody. And then Kelnick, he was just joined the team, and he said, let me just be real clear. Welcome. I am here for you. Anything you ever need, I am here. And I always have your bag.

13:00
Tab Norris
And he said, not only, and he said, you ask every single player on this team, they would tell you that's who he is. I mean, it was. It made me, like, a little teary. I was kind of going, how cool is that?

13:10
Tom Stanfill
That moves you because it's a. It means you so much more than you hear. You got a $20 million contract.

13:15
Tab Norris
Exactly. Everybody would do anything for him.

13:18
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And you look at the people that live for themselves, it's funny. It denies them the thing the very self wants.

13:27
Tab Norris
Yeah, right.

13:28
Tom Stanfill
The things that we want, we don't get when we're selfish. So, I mean, we could talk about this for hours, but yes, you know, we've studied it and seen it over and over again, and we're so passionate about it. But the idea is we believe that being other centered is more effective. So what we're going to challenge people to do, including ourselves and everybody, is that we're going to do an OC 30, meaning we're going to look at how we can be more other centered around the four verbs that we define as being other centered for four weeks. So the four verbs are decide, choose, serve and seek. So, decide. And this is why we've been talking about the strategy. Decide. What is your overarching strategy for successful relationships? Whether it's leadership, selling, marriage, parenting, any relationships that you have, business.

14:20
Tom Stanfill
And then what is your decision in every meeting that you may have, like who's first? Every meeting. And we'll talk about that in a second. Then there's the choose, which is why this whole thing works is because we can't serve everybody. We have to choose. We don't have time to serve everybody. And if we try to spend time serving everybody, we serve no one. We'll talk more about that week two. Then week three is going to be, how can we serve better? Okay, so if we've decided to serve and we've chose the people we serve, well, then what's the key to serving?

14:48
Tom Stanfill
Well, we'll talk about that week three and then week four is if we're other centered, we're going to seek feedback because just like a customer focused company wants to get feedback from the customers, if we're an other centered individual, we want to get feedback on how we can improve because we have blind spots. So that will be week four. So let's talk about week one, the decide.

15:12
Tab Norris
So the challenge is laid out there for us right away, and we're going to dig into the first one now.

15:18
Tom Stanfill
So decide. Okay. So again, we've talked about two things. Is there's a decision to be made about your overarching strategy, meaning I am going to be successful in sales. I'm going to be a successful leader. I'm going to be successful at whatever area you want because I'm going to be selfish and it's okay. There's no judgment or in other words, I'm going to try to do everything I can to manipulate people and get what I want or my primary driver to being successful is to be other centered, is to serve others. So that's the first decision I would love for everybody if he's going to take this challenge, is to fill in that blank. I'm going to be successful if what, right. So what's my overarching philosophy? What I would. Does that make sense, tab? Make sure I'm being.

16:06
Tab Norris
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so you just have to. Are you saying basically you have two choices, right? It's not that complicated.

16:14
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

16:15
Tab Norris
Are you, are you going to either choose to be just about yourself and. Or you going to be about others? Right. So you're just saying you got to make the big choice between door a or door b.

16:25
Tom Stanfill
There's only two choices. There's strategies.

16:28
Tab Norris
Yeah. So it's like, I'm going to get.

16:31
Tom Stanfill
People that, you know, I'm going to get think if I want relationships, right. It's about how can I get people to like me or how can I like people? Like, if I walk into a social situation. I have two strategies.

16:44
Tab Norris
Right.

16:44
Tom Stanfill
Right. It's like either I'm going to walk in that room and I'm going to be like, nobody's talking to me, or I need to get people to talk to me, or how can I be people? How can I be liked? What do I need to do to push those buttons? And I'm not happy if those don't happen, or I'm going into a social situation or a meeting, and I'm saying, who here needs me?

17:03
Tab Norris
Right.

17:04
Tom Stanfill
It's either I'm here to find who needs me, who's. Who doesn't have anybody to talk to. How do I make people feel special? How do I look at, you know, like, when I think back on the last sort of social event, I think big social event was. Was Ford's wedding. Oh, yeah. So, rehearsal dinner. I walk in, I'm supposed to say something. Rehearsal dinner. I could be very focused on how I'm perceived, what I'm gonna say, who do I know, what I'm uncomfortable? Or I can say, who here? Who here needs me to talk to them? Because maybe they don't know somebody or they're not connected, or how can I introduce people? So it's either about me or about. It's just that simple?

17:38
Tab Norris
Yeah.

17:38
Tom Stanfill
And when I've walked into those situations where it's about me, it never goes well.

17:46
Tab Norris
What's it. It really gets you. You can't be who you're really wired to be. That's what I've noticed. I. You're. I feel like it. At least that's just for me. I. If I. If I choose to be about myself, I just feel like I'm. I'm not being true to myself.

18:06
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, you're not authentic.

18:08
Tab Norris
I'm not authentic.

18:09
Tom Stanfill
I mean, I'm trying to be who you need me to.

18:11
Tab Norris
Exactly.

18:13
Tom Stanfill
I'm trying to be the guy or. Yeah.

18:15
Tab Norris
Yeah. Yeah. Well, because I. And I'm gonna. I know this would be good accountability. I. This afternoon, I have a meeting with a. With a potential prospect.

18:24
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

18:25
Tab Norris
I'm gonna. This will be my first try.

18:26
Tom Stanfill
Okay.

18:27
Tab Norris
You know, and I'm gonna go into that meeting, and that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna come in. It's not about what I can get them to purchase. I'm really going to focus on. Let's just figure out exactly what would make the most sense for these couple of divisions that you have out there, and let's see how it goes.

18:45
Tom Stanfill
Well, you're bringing up the second challenge. And maybe if you're. If people aren't sure, maybe they should just try the second part of the challenge, which is before every meeting, make a decision, but to make the other person or the people that you're meeting with the priority. Okay, so for one week, in every situation that you're with people, just for one week is just say, I'm gonna. I'm not gonna be the priority. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. Before every meeting, whether we're playing golf, whether we're. I'm hanging out with my wife. I had one out there with my wife Saturday night. Do I make a decision? Tonight is about making her feel special versus is she going to make me feel special? You know, it's about, you know, it's. How do I.

19:29
Tom Stanfill
If I'm with my children, if I'm with a co worker, if I'm with a client, I'm going to. Everything I say and do is about. Is going to be, I'm going to make a decision before that meeting to make them the priority and just do it for a week. That's. That's my.

19:43
Tab Norris
Okay. All right, so let me clarify. I like this. You know me, I like these challenges. I get it tight on the directions. So it sounds like step one. We all have to decide that we want to go there. I'm going to pick the other center door. So that's it. So we pick what you say.

20:00
Tom Stanfill
You have to be open to it.

20:01
Tab Norris
You be open to it. You have to be open to explore that. Step two is, here's the way you tactically put it into play. This next week. This week, we're going to make that decision before any social meeting, business meeting, anything for this week. And this will be great. When we get back together. We can share some stories, I'm sure.

20:24
Tom Stanfill
And I was like, the people who right now are thinking about other people who need to hear this.

20:32
Tab Norris
That's what I do all the time now. My wife should hear this.

20:36
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. You know, because you're thinking about the people that. Because we're very tuned into the people that are selfish, like the people that the me, monsters. And you. Every time you tell a story, they interrupt the story, or you watch how they parent or you watch how they. How they sell or you watch how they, you know, they need to hear that. And you know what they do. Right. You're right. But I will tell you, it's easy to think that we're and maybe we are other centered in our intent. Otherwise, we've answered the big question. We believe in the other center philosophy. We've answered the big question. But the problem is the default itself is so great. And this is where I make my decisions. Where I struggle is I don't make the decision before every meeting.

21:17
Tab Norris
That's exactly where I'm. I think you and I both bought in the. In a high level. We picked the right door, I think. But we are human, and it is a daily. It is a daily task, and I don't think any. Yeah, I don't. I think we'll battle that our whole lives. I mean, I think that's part of life, but.

21:35
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, we will. But. But if it becomes a habit, it's a lot easier. Like, it's a. It's. It's now. It's almost a habit for me, especially in sales. In other areas, I struggle.

21:45
Tab Norris
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I think it's a. We can have, you know, we can, you know, maybe you can have victory all the way around all the time. But, But I do. I do think that it can become such a habit that if you are off, you catch it real fast. Yeah, I change it.

22:03
Tom Stanfill
But I've been. I mean, I tell you, after Covid.

22:05
Tab Norris
Yeah.

22:05
Tom Stanfill
Oh, I should say when Covid hit and I started to feel the pinch in our business, you know, were public workshops that got shut down. I started feeling the pinch. I just made a major purchase. So I needed to make money myself. Was driving the car.

22:22
Tab Norris
Yeah.

22:22
Tom Stanfill
And I remember having a very early meeting in that timeframe with a prospect, a pretty big prospect. And I remember they asked the question something about. And it was very early, like, why would you be a good partner for us? And the answer to the question was, I don't really know if I would be right.

22:39
Tab Norris
I have no idea.

22:40
Tom Stanfill
I mean, were very, so early. I didn't even really quite know what the objectives were, the project, and that my ex. I mean, I should have just naturally said, you know, Mike, I don't know. I mean, I need to know more about you. My goal is to help you achieve what you're trying to achieve, but I don't know what you're trying to achieve. You know, that would have been the honest, other centered response. I started talking.

23:02
Tab Norris
Let's see. That's exactly what I do. I just shut. I'm like, who are you? I'm like, chatty Cathy. You punch the button, and I just. Blah, blah.

23:09
Tom Stanfill
There's several things I can think and say right now. I'm going to say them all. Yeah. And the thing, here's the thing. When you make the decision back into sales, when you make the decision, your demeanor is just so comfortable and the information flows and you ask the right questions and you position things very effective because you're thinking about, how do you say this to the customer? That will be helpful. And you have so much more credibility because you're not trying. Like, they see that you're, I don't know, you, like, they want to work with you more because you don't seem to potentially know if you want to work with them. And it's like, could you imagine going to a doctor and they're like, really trying to get your business?

23:52
Tab Norris
Yeah.

23:55
Tom Stanfill
So, mate. Yeah. So the challenge is for one week, every time you have an important meeting. I mean, and again, we'll talk about this in a second. Doesn't mean you have to it all the time, but you have every important meeting with people, social relationship, family. Make the decision before. This is really key. To do it before is, okay, stop and make a decision or you'll default to self is I'm just going to make everybody else the priority, right? Like I just had, I was on a vacation with my family, right. And when I'm with my family, I'm happy and I'm really excited. And I can easily say, I'm going to try to enjoy this, or I can look at what grandkid needs support, what parent might need support. How can I help? Take bird. It's so easy for me to default to self.

24:41
Tom Stanfill
So that's what we're going to do for a week. But I do think we need to. We need to be helpful to, like, tune into or pay attention to also negative emotions that might happen during the week. So other words, I would also recommend sort of, if you pay attention to, you know, are you agitated, are you angry, are you fearful? Do these negative emotions come up? Try to identify where did they come from?

25:16
Tab Norris
Okay, so because you're saying that's going to hinder me from making them the priorities that what is that what the challenge is?

25:23
Tom Stanfill
It will reveal who is the priority. Right. So these are trick. These are things to pay attention to while you're. Yeah, they're triggers. So, you know, like, as you're going through it, I think of it accessing. Okay. Because here, what I'm trying to say, tab, is if I make them decision. Okay, so I'm gonna make this decision before the meeting to put people first. Well, then I'm gonna go in the meeting and I want to ask people, well, let's just assess. Assess yourself after the meeting or during the meeting. Like, are you getting frustrated, are you getting angry? Or are you experiencing fear? Like, my biggest, what, my biggest challenge for me in my career is really selfish fear. It's fear based on self, whether I'm speaking or do anything, I'm doing.

26:15
Tab Norris
So unpack that a little bit. Fear based on self. What does that mean?

26:18
Tom Stanfill
How am I going to look? How's this going to affect me?

26:21
Tab Norris
You're afraid that you're going to project in a negative way or. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I get that.

26:28
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that's my biggest. I'm going to look stupid. I'm not going to say the right thing. I'm going to, I should have said this and didn't say this. The people that are watching me, they're going to judge me and think that I'm not very smart. Those are all self, self based fear. There's fear based on self, I guess, is the way I would say that.

26:48
Tab Norris
Yeah.

26:48
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. And that might be, this might be too big of a leap for people, but if you pay attention to your emotions and start seeing, that'll help you figure out where the rub is in the tension of, between self and others. My wife gives me feedback. Okay, let's say, hey, I don't feel like you're listening to me. Right. I can get frustrated and like, how dare you tell me I'm not doing something right? Which I wouldn't say that, but my attitude might communicate that. Or if you're driving, you know, she gets frustrated. I'm not driving the way that she wants me to drive because I scare when I drive. And you.

27:29
Tab Norris
So you don't just go pull the car over and say that I'm done driving and get out.

27:34
Tom Stanfill
Right. That's how I, if I did that, if I was frustrated, all I'm really saying is I am the center here. You're not the center. I'm not being other centered.

27:42
Tab Norris
Yeah, that's good. So pay attention to that.

27:48
Tom Stanfill
Pay attention to that. If you are in these meetings and you start to have what I would call negative emotions, whether fear, agitation, frustration, pay attention to that and try to figure out the source, sometimes it's legit. Somebody's doing something to you or saying something that's not warranted and. But it still helps you unpack that.

28:10
Tab Norris
Yeah.

28:11
Tom Stanfill
The other, the other things that I would, or, and maybe, tab, you'd be thinking about what triggers you. And you can tell because that's really the question I'm trying to answer is, like, how do I know if I'm being other centered in a meeting? I've really made the other person priority. The other thing I looked at is percentage time I'm talking to.

28:31
Tab Norris
Well, that's my 100%. That's my biggest. I just talk. I mean, it's just so clear. That's my default. Yeah, that one's pretty easy. I don't get angry. I don't get mad. I don't get. I don't get frustrated. I just talk.

28:47
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that's probably more. That's probably more typical for me as well, except with the. My closest relationship. Probably my wife more than anybody.

28:59
Tab Norris
Well, yeah, I can say my wife. I get frustrated. I get frustrated and I mean angry. I guess it is. But it'll be like, I know I need to be other centered, but I'm watching something that it's not. Like it's not true. I don't know if you struggle with this. Like, I'm going, what you're telling yourself and what we're talking about is not true. I can validate right now. I can give you seven bullet points that will prove that you are wrong and I am right and that you are way off on burning calories on this. That never works. And all that does is gets me more and more jacked up and frustrated and angry. And then she gets frustrated because she said, all you are, you're just angry. And I said, of course I'm angry because you're wrong.

29:46
Tab Norris
And I'm not angry because it's hurting me. I'm angry because it's hurting herself. But it's still being self centered.

29:52
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

29:53
Tab Norris
Cause I need to. I need to give what she needs. I need to focus on what she needs. And she does not need me to give her seven bullet points on why she's wrong.

30:01
Tom Stanfill
This is such a great example tab of why that you're more successful and fulfilled when you adopt the other center mentality. Cause I did that for years. So I'm kind of the sort of the justice person in relationships. It's like, if it's unfair or it's not true, I wanna defend myself. So kind of. I do. I kind of revert to an attorney when I get in these situations. I want to prove my case, but what happens when I do that is, first of all, it never works. I mean, obviously we teach this. It just creates. It just makes them move further away when I try to prove that they're wrong. And I'm also missing the bigger picture. My wife has heard about something and I'm not tuned into what she's heard about or what she's afraid of.

30:43
Tom Stanfill
I'm worried about what she's saying about me. But when I look at her and I say, okay, something's happened. You're triggered or you're upset. What is going on? I'm going to remove myself from the equation. How can I address what's happened to you? Regardless of how it relates to me and when I do that and I love her unconditionally and I look at how I can serve her and don't worry about me. Our relationship gets so much better and she eventually will say, well, I know I was unfair, maybe you didn't do that. Or I, that was me. I mean, she'll own what she needs own, but as soon as it. The start, the fight starts.

31:21
Tab Norris
Yeah.

31:22
Tom Stanfill
It doesn't work.

31:24
Tab Norris
Yeah, well, I see mine's, even, mine's different. I'm talking about like, it's not about me. I get, I get fried. I mean, she's not mad at me, she's just mad at the world or mad at something. And I, I want to make her better. Like, I want to fix her. But I mean I, they're both, but they're both the same.

31:45
Tom Stanfill
Not, but it affects you because she's being what she's upset about.

31:49
Tab Norris
And so then it drags me down. I don't want you to be all sitting around moaning and groaning about this. So it is about me, but it's a little different, you know, I mean she's not attacking me, she attacks me. It's much harder.

32:01
Tom Stanfill
Yeah.

32:01
Tab Norris
Like if I, if she's taking it out on me, which is what you're.

32:04
Tom Stanfill
Talking about, that's a lot harder.

32:05
Tab Norris
But they're both hard to me.

32:07
Tom Stanfill
Well, and that is actually, but I've learned that's actually typically what is happening. My wife's talking about something else. I somehow got pulled into it and I react to it. But the bottom line is if our frustrated, this is why I said what I said earlier. Our frustration in our relationships come from something that we don't like that's happening to us. Otherwise we wouldn't be frustrated.

32:31
Tab Norris
You're right, either one. It's the same thing.

32:33
Tom Stanfill
If I'm worried about my children, it's going to come across as, hey, you're making these decisions and because you're making these decisions, it's going to hurt you versus you're making these decisions and it's going to affect me. And when it affects me, my tone goes up, my frustration goes up. One way I'm communicating out of love and concern, and the other way I'm communicating out of. You're ticking me off because you're not doing what I'm telling you doing. If you don't do what I'm telling you, it's going to cost me. Ultimately, yes. And again, we do get angry at times for the right reasons, but most of the time, it's because we're not getting something we want.

33:11
Tab Norris
Yeah.

33:14
Tom Stanfill
It doesn't drive healthy relationships. I want to say one more thing about this challenge. As I was preparing for this, I wanted to speak to the peacemaker.

33:25
Tab Norris
Okay.

33:26
Tom Stanfill
So the peacemaker is the person who, in every situation goes in and you. Everybody would say they're other centered because they always ask the questions, they never challenge people. They always are looking for ways to serve. They're always giving gifts. They're always, you know, they're always. They're the peacemaker. And so, yes, they may get a 100% score in this category. They don't wake up every morning going, how can I get what I want? They're like, they wake up in the morning, how can I keep the peace and help everybody get what they want? But there is a selfish side to that. I had to write it down because it's so foreign to me. I actually kind of a little bit wired this way. You're wired a little bit like, yeah. And I wrote down, it's making the peace self serving.

34:16
Tom Stanfill
So we need to ask our questions. Is making the peace self serving and keeping you from serving the right people? Is it. Is it self serving or keeping you from serving the right people? Are not saying what needs to be said. So in other words, are you. Are you keeping the peace? But you shouldn't. Right, right. You're keeping the peace because I shouldn't say that to you, even though I need to say that to you because I just don't want us to have conflict. So I'm not going to say it. But actually, is that what's best for the other person, or am I trying to serve so many people? I can't serve the right people because I'm. And I'm too. I'm too stressed out and they're. Or they're not taking care of themselves?

34:57
Tom Stanfill
Because that's one of the things I really want to close with. We are saying we're not. I should say we're not saying that we don't take care of ourselves. And that we need to never be happy and never go on vacations and never take time alone and never do the things that we want to do. Of course we do. This is more an overarching way of living and a way of relating. So I just want to challenge the peacemakers to don't just overlook this and go, I got it. I never do that. I'm not like those other people.

35:24
Tab Norris
Yeah. Because I think you're right. Like, I know you know this about me. I can't handle con, I, like, I don't, if there is some kind of conflict, I have to deal with it.

35:35
Tom Stanfill
And that's good.

35:36
Tab Norris
Yes. But I can see how you could think, I'm not going to deal with that. And that is bad. Like, you know what I mean? Just, I just don't want to ruffle the water. I don't want to cause anybody any kind of discomfort. But, but you being other centered could mean bringing something up so you can have a discussion about it and you can deal with it and it's healthy for everybody. I mean, that's a really good example. So that's a. Yeah, I can see that.

36:04
Tom Stanfill
Well, it can piece the peacemaker unhealthy, can be codependent. Yeah. And then what that comes out is really. Is anger.

36:12
Tab Norris
Yeah.

36:14
Tom Stanfill
I become the victim. I become change. I can't do anything. I can't.

36:18
Tab Norris
See, that's it. And see, and that's. I think that's a really good point as we kind of wrap this up, because I know. I don't know if you're this way. If I don't, if I try not to hurt anybody's feelings, it really gets worse because then I do internalize it and then it'll come exploding out. So that's a really good point.

36:38
Tom Stanfill
Helped me. I mean, and you such a beautiful example that, I mean, because I'm a very. I mean, I've. I'm very opinionated. Right. That's probably right. I'm very. And so as I was, you know, maturing and you've been with me for, so we've been together for so long. I mean, you were together in the early thirties. I mean, so I was maturing.

36:59
Tab Norris
Don't. Didn't you love it? I love when that dance came out. Was it to Charleston that we did?

37:04
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that was right after that. I think it was after world war, I think that world war two had just ended. But, yeah, you know, I'm so opinionated. And you would you out in loving way which would very lovingly say, well, you know, I'm like, why did that. No, why didn't that go well, you know? And you would basically share how I was, how my being so opinionated and not making room for other people's insights or not asking their opinion was so helpful for me. It was like, I was like, oh. It was like I could completely see it. Well, you were serving me.

37:40
Tab Norris
Yeah, but I could. But you're right. But if you were self centered and you would be like, I don't want him to be mad at me. I'm just not going to say anything.

37:48
Tom Stanfill
I'm not going to say anything.

37:49
Tab Norris
And that would hurt you because you need that feedback, just like I need feedback. We all need feedback.

37:54
Tom Stanfill
Yeah, that would hurt me. I mean, so you helped me, but you also, you shared that. Not in frustration, you showed that in love.

38:01
Tab Norris
So you've done the same. You've done the same for me. I know. And that's. I think that's what good, healthy relationships are.

38:08
Tom Stanfill
And as we're going to talk about next, in the next week challenge, you don't have to do this with everybody.

38:14
Tab Norris
Yeah. That's a great way to finish because it could seem a bit overwhelming.

38:19
Tom Stanfill
No, you can ignore a lot of people. Matter of fact, we can't.

38:23
Tab Norris
We can't do it with everyone.

38:24
Tom Stanfill
You can't.

38:25
Tab Norris
That's really what you're saying.

38:26
Tom Stanfill
This is only select. You can just, you can just move. You don't need to confront a lot of people that you, if you're a peacemaker, but in the meetings that you have for week one, all we're asking you to do, right, as simple as this is, before every meeting, decide to make the other people the priority and see how that changes what you would do or say. And if you're not, if you forget, if you make that decision before, after the meeting's over, look at your emotions, look at how much you said. I look at what you. Maybe if you're a peacemaker, what you didn't say that you should have said or. And so you don't have to do anything about it.

39:04
Tom Stanfill
Like, just all we want you to do is to make a decision internally and then just be observant of what happened and then see how that changes. And what that reveals is maybe. Maybe there's some impurities, right? Maybe the detox will be helped. I. Or maybe you'll see you give yourself 100 and you're the most other centered people, and. And, maybe we'll give you an award. We'll give them an award tab.

39:29
Tab Norris
And if. Don't be afraid. If you have someone in your life that you could share that with, I think that would be good, too.

39:34
Tom Stanfill
Yeah. People to do it with you.

39:36
Tab Norris
Yeah. With me. And let's, you know, and tell people, have you done how you've done? So I think this is great. Beautiful, clear, tight challenge.

39:44
Tom Stanfill
Thanks, my friend. Thanks for challenging me. Thanks for being my other centered friend and leader and partner, and I hope everybody gives it a shot and join us next week when we unpack week two challenge, which is around how do we choose who we're going to serve? That's my toughest. That's my toughest challenge. Awesome. Can't wait.